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Live 2.0 - Questions And Answers


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#1 brienj

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 04:32 AM

So you verified what I said to be correct? smile.gif

I hope so. I think people would believe you over me, but I guess I can't blame them. smile.gif

Sorry if this doesn't pertain to the thread, I just would like to know that somebody did indeed verify what I said. Thanks. smile.gif

Edited by brienj, 13 September 2003 - 04:34 AM.


#2 shanafan

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 04:49 AM

QUOTE (brienj @ Sep 13 2003, 01:32 AM)
So you verified what I said to be correct? smile.gif

I hope so. I think people would believe you over me, but I guess I can't blame them. smile.gif

Sorry if this doesn't pertain to the thread, I just would like to know that somebody did indeed verify what I said. Thanks. smile.gif

I have just done some more testing. I go back on what I said again. laugh.gif

Here is what I did:

I removed my Xbox Live account from my Xbox. Rebooted my Xbox and then put account back on. I selected my account in the Live tab, and Live connected in a mere second.

I unplugged my network cable and the Xbox loading screen (with the green X), was delayed several seconds. I plugged the cable back in, and there was no delay.

So, I am saying now that Live will always connect in the MS dash with Live 2.0 no matter what.

Again, I might be wrong. But, what I am saying is playing it safe. No risks smile.gif

Of course, if I am wrong, please let me know with some good testing information!

#3 Telemachus

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 05:51 PM

Just curious about one thing...

I have noted that when I unplug my box for several hours, and plug it back in, that the first thing that loads is the MSDASH (you all know this, too. It is how you set the clock).

Won't this now be the NATIVE 2.0 dash that loads, and not the one that is linked from EVOX?

This could be quite catastrophic if the cable is plugged in, because is is the X2 bios that is loading up, and defaulting to the XBOXDASH, is it not?

Also, has their been any clarification on whether or not it will re-update if you just swap out the XBL 2.0 dash with an earlier one?

Shan, thanks for cleaning up the pinned posts... this board looks great!

Edited by Telemachus, 13 September 2003 - 05:55 PM.


#4 paulthims

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE (shanafan @ Sep 13 2003, 06:49 AM)
Again, I might be wrong. But, what I am saying is playing it safe. No risks  smile.gif

Of course, if I am wrong, please let me know with some good testing information!

Testing Xbox Packets

=====================================
Testing Parameters:

Computer:
OS: Win2000Pro
Ethernet: Realtek RTL Ethernet Adapter, 10mbps
Static IP: 192.168.1.44, 255.255.255.0
Packet Sniffer: Packetyzer 0.6.7

Router:
Linksys BEFSR41 EtherFast Cable/DSL Router
(note: to rest the router between test, I turn off its power for a few minutes and then begin the next test.)

Modem:
Cable Modem: Motorola SURFboard SB5100
ISP: Connecticut, United States

Xbox #1:
Live: v1.0, no live account present on hard drive
Mod Off Network Settings: IP and DNS are automatic
Mod On Network Settings: static 192.168.1.50
Motherboard: v1.0 (MS refurbished)
Modchip: X-ecuter 2.1 Pro
BIOS: Xecuter2 4976.02
OS: EvolutionX 1.8.3752

Xbox #2:
Live: v2.0, no live account present on hard drive, auto sign-in turned off
Mod Off Network Settings: IP and DNS are automatic
Mod On Network Settings: static 192.168.1.51
Motherboard: v1.0
Modchip: X-ecuter 2.1 Lite
BIOS: Xecuter2 4976.02
OS: EvolutionX 1.8.3752

Memory Card:
Single Live account stored on memory card. Though I had updated this account to v2.0 on Thursday morning, September 11, I had not yet played a game online using this account.

Protocol Note:
I know the percentages don't add up to 100%. I'm just noting what Packetyzer reports.


=====================================
Test A: Power On, Mod Chip Off:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
During the blubber screen (Animated image that ends with green X and MS logo), traffic occurred during the one second between the MS logo appearing and the dashboard loading. By the time the dashboard loaded, DHCP Discovery and Assignment had concluded. Four times, the router asked if anyone on the network was using 192.168.1.100. Receiving no response from other machines on the network, the Router assigned 192.168.1.100 to Xbox #1.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 4.79%
Internet Protocol: 3.91%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.57%
Bootstrap Protocol: 82.97%
Address Resolution Protocol: 4.11%

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
Nothing noticeably different from the User Interface. The packet information, however, is different. Prior to upgrading this Xbox to Xbox Live v2.0, its packet information was identical to the XBL v1.0 box.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 7.17%
Address Resolution Protocol: 9.56%
Internet Protocol: 3.41%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.37%
Bootstrap Protocol: 72.35%


=====================================
Test B: Power On, Mod Chip On:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
During the blubber screen (Animated image that ends with green X and Xecuter logo), traffic occurred during the one second between the Xecuter logo appearing and EvolutionX loading. By the time EvolutionX loaded, the Xbox had Broadcast that it has 192.168.1.50.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 23.33%
Address Resolution Protocol: 46.67%

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
Nothing noticeably different, except for the IP address. The exact same protocols were used with the same amounts.


=====================================
Test C: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Click on Xbox Live from Dash:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Not going to do this test because I'm not ready to upgrade this box to XBL v2.0. Sorry.

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
Boot to dash remained the same as Test A. I reset Packetyzer before clicking on Xbox Live, so these results do not include the boot process. With Packetyzer reset to zero, I clicked on Xbox Live. To my surprise, no packets were exchanged. No traffic at all. XBL just sat at the Select Account screen, offering me two options: New Account & Account Recovery.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
None


=====================================
Test D: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Click on Network Settings:

(note: For XBL v1.0, network settings are found within the XBL menu. For XBL v2.0, however, network settings are found within Settings > Network Settings.)

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
I begin this test after a successful boot to the dashboard (see Test A). I click on Settings, no network traffic occurs. I click on Network Settings and network traffic begins. By the time the Network Settings page loads, the following packets have been exchanged.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 7.17%
Address Resolution Protocol: 9.56%
Internet Protocol: 3.41%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.37%
Bootstrap Protocol: 72.35%


=====================================
Test E: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Click on Network Settings, click on Connect:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
Continuing from Test D, I reset Packetyzer and click on Connect. Remember, there is no XBL account stored on this hard drive and the memory card is not installed.

The Connect Status screen takes about ten seconds to complete its four steps. It first spends a lot of steps going through the DHCP process again. It then begins an SSDP: M-Search via HTTP/1.1 to Destination Address 239.255.255.250. There were 24 steps for the SSDP process, which concluded the Connect Status menu. I successfully connected to Xbox Live v2.0 without using an XBL account. No surprises here.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 8.07%
Data: 2.04%
Internet Protocol: 7.10%
User Datagram Protocol: 2.84%
Bootstrap Protocol: 37.61%
Hypertext Transfer Protocol: 34.19%
Address Resolution Protocol: 4.97%


=====================================
Test F: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Exit on Network Settings by clicking on the B button:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
Didn't really expect this, but when I exited Network Settings so that I could return to the Dashboard, I noticed some more DHCP network traffic.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 7.17%
Address Resolution Protocol: 9.56%
Internet Protocol: 3.41%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.37%
Bootstrap Protocol: 72.35%


=====================================
Test G: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Click on Xbox Live, Insert Memory Card, Select XBL v2.0 account:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
I click on Xbox Live and no network traffic occurs (see Test C). Xbox Live waits at the Select Account screen, offering me two options: New Account & Account Recovery. Still, no network traffic.

I then insert my Memory Card, which contains one Xbox Live v2.0 account. Instantly, my XBL account shows up in the Select Account screen. Still, no network traffic.

I select my XBL account and network traffic occurs. The new XBL v2.0 screen appears and waits for my command. To my surprise, very little traffic occurs. Here are the protocols that were used.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 23.33%
Address Resolution Protocol: 46.67%


=====================================
Test H: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Click on Xbox Live, Insert Memory Card, Select XBL v2.0 account, select Friends:

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
My list of friends came up. Not that had for XBL to do, since I only have two. Here are the packets exchanged.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 5.32%
Internet Protocol: 3.80%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.52%
Bootstrap Protocol: 80.61%
Address Resolution Protocol: 5.32%


=====================================
Test I: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Memory Card with XBL v2.0 account present, Automatic Sign-In turned Off

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
This time, I boot the Xbox with the Memory Card present in one of my controllers. Since Automatic Sign-In is disabled, I get the normal Dashboard. I also get the same network traffic. Nothing appears to be different between booting with the Memory Card installed or not. Traffic is the same.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 7.17%
Address Resolution Protocol: 9.56%
Internet Protocol: 3.41%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.37%
Bootstrap Protocol: 72.35%


=====================================
Test J: Power On, Mod Chip Off, Memory Card with XBL v2.0 account present, Automatic Sign-In turned On

-------------------------------------
Xbox #1:
Skipped

-------------------------------------
Xbox #2:
This time, I boot the Xbox with the Memory Card present in one of my controllers and Automatic Sign-In is enabled. As before, network activity begins at the moment the MS logo appears on the blubber screen. After seeing the Ghost Recon looking busy signal, I get the new Xbox Live v2.0 dash. Once the dash loads, network traffic stops.

Protocols used for this transaction were:
Ethernet: 7.95%
Address Resolution Protocol: 11.36%
Internet Protocol: 3.25%
User Datagram Protocol: 1.30%
Bootstrap Protocol: 68.83%


=====================================
CONCLUSIONS (more like speculations):

1. Test A indicates that upgrading to Xbox Live v2.0 does change network traffic

2. Test B indicates that upgrading does not effect EvolutionX settings

3. Test C indicates that if you do not have an XBL account installed on your hard drive (or an attached Memory Card) neither the dashboard nor the Xbox Live menu will initiate any network traffic.

4. Tests D, E, and F indicate that you can successful test your network settings and connect to Xbox Live even if you do not have an Xbox Live account.

5. Test G indicates that network traffic does not occur when you click on Xbox Live from the Dashboard, nor does it occur when you insert a Memory Card that contains an XBL account. It is not until you select your XBL account that traffic begins.

6. Test H just shows some traffic patterns within XBL v2.0

7. Test I indicates that if you have an Xbox Live v2.0 account present but Automatic Sign-In is disabled, your Xbox does not automatically try to connect to Xbox Live.

8. Test J indicates that if you have an Xbox Live v2.0 account present and Automatic Sign-In is enabled, your Xbox does automatically connect to Xbox Live.

My Credentials:
I'm a web developer, not a network administrator. I don't fully understand this information myself. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.


#5 shanafan

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 12:27 AM

Thanks for the tests. Helps to bring my light to Auto Sign-In.

Let me ask you this though, how many times did you retry a test? Like, would the results be exactly the same?

If you were running another web-enabled app on your computer, could the results have changed?

Edited by shanafan, 14 September 2003 - 12:28 AM.


#6 brienj

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 05:56 AM

Nice work. smile.gif

I could have made a lengthy post like you did, but don't worry, you'll prolly get the same response I have been getting. People just don't want to believe the facts. biggrin.gif

I do commend you for your effort though, and job well done. smile.gif

#7 shanafan

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 06:11 AM

No one is calling anybody a liar.

I think its just fair it assess that you should not boot the MS dash with the modchip on. Why risk getting banned anyways?

If you want to use the MS dash with modchip on, just follow my short tutorial above.

#8 brienj

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 03:14 PM

QUOTE (shanafan @ Sep 14 2003, 12:11 AM)
No one is calling anybody a liar.

I think its just fair it assess that you should not boot the MS dash with the modchip on. Why risk getting banned anyways?

If you want to use the MS dash with modchip on, just follow my short tutorial above.

Well, you never called me a liar, but several others already have. I know I haven't posted here alot, but I am into the Xbox scene more than most people around here realize.

I agree that you shouldn't even be using the MS dash with the modchip enabled, that is just not a smart thing to do. Now using a modified MS dash, that is a different story and even with the old MS dash, I had a shortcut to a modified MS dash in my Evox menu. smile.gif

All the things I have been sharing about the new dash, are so people can start getting rid of the rumors about it that started before it was even released. I noticed that some people are still trying to spread some rumors, but for some reason, people just eat it up. biggrin.gif

I am going into what, the fourth day with this new dash and STILL no ban. It is definately obvious that the new dash is like the old one, except for the auto-login IF you set it up that way, and IF you have an account on the HD. There are no HD scans or any other such nonsense.

I really believe that MS will never go after the modchip users, just the people that mod their Xboxes the "easy" way, i.e. font hacks and stuff. This new dash obviously was meant to get rid of the font hack as a byproduct of installing it, but I really think MS had good intentions of giving us a new dash with cool features. I mean come on, you can talk for free long-distance with your buddies. That's really cool. smile.gif

MS will only be worried about the people that use "easy" methods to play backups, because most of those hacks will only allow backups, because their isn't much room on the HD to get into homebrew, emulators, and other stuff that the mod-chip user uses the mod-chip for.

Ok, sorry for the long rant, but I needed to get that off my chest after all the bashing I have been getting lately by people that claim they are in the know, but really aren't.

Shanafan, you keep up the good work, with your tutorials and stuff. smile.gif

#9 shanafan

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 06:51 PM

Since I have been graced with my status on the Live, XBConnect, and Other Online Gaming boards, I think I must take one for the team.

I am going to, again, but Live 2.0 on my modded Xbox, but turn off auto sign-in and access the MS dash with modchip on.

I trust brienj's findings, and I will do this to confirm mine as well. Then, we will really know. And also, of course, anybody is free to report as well.

We need to get this information CONFIRMED

#10 shanafan

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:22 PM

Ok, so I put Live 2.0 back on my unbanned, modded Xbox. I have disabled auto sign-in. I have rebooted and loaded the Live 2.0 MS dash with the modchip on. I clicked on Live, saw my account, and then hit 'B' to go back to the MS dash (Connecting to Live will ban, of course)

Keep you updated smile.gif

BTW, I am playing a soundtrack right now at the MS dash to let any possible modchip tests to completely run...IF THEY EXIST

Edited by shanafan, 14 September 2003 - 07:23 PM.


#11 Booger2003

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:23 PM

Um....I have played Live the last couple of days and still haven't been asked to update to the new dash? Why is this?

#12 phantazma1

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:28 PM

you know how when you unplug the xbox for a long time, and then when you turn it on it asks you for the date/time? well if you have a modchip on, put in the time and hit OK, will this take you to the MS dash or the LIVE 2.0 dash? if it does take you to the LIVE dash, then you'll be automatically banned right? do you think that even on the clock setting screen, MS will automatically connect you to LIVE? i unplug my xbox often (go to Halo tournaments etc.) so i'm a little concerned.

#13 shanafan

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:39 PM

QUOTE (Booger2003 @ Sep 14 2003, 04:23 PM)
Um....I have played Live the last couple of days and still haven't been asked to update to the new dash? Why is this?

Because you haven't accessed Xbox Live from the MS dash.

#14 shanafan

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (phantazma1 @ Sep 14 2003, 04:28 PM)
you know how when you unplug the xbox for a long time, and then when you turn it on it asks you for the date/time? well if you have a modchip on, put in the time and hit OK, will this take you to the MS dash or the LIVE 2.0 dash? if it does take you to the LIVE dash, then you'll be automatically banned right? do you think that even on the clock setting screen, MS will automatically connect you to LIVE? i unplug my xbox often (go to Halo tournaments etc.) so i'm a little concerned.

After the update, there is only one dash. Which is Live 2.0 MS dash.

I recommend, as of right now, but not fully certain, disable auto sign-in to be safe.

#15 TripFoeYa

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:48 PM

I have been using my Xbox w/ modchip on and the Auto Sing-In off to play backups w/o being banned so far. Loading the MS Dash. This has been for 3 days now.




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