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#1 maow

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 10:59 PM

Okay, here's what I've done. I bought a Mad Catz Controller and Ripped off the Right Analog stick. I bought a Tiny track ball and opened that up. But now I'm stuck.

The right analog's stick has 3 connections per AXIS, like a mouse. I'm guessing 1 for power (+5V) and 2 for output (A and B ),

The trackball however has 8 connections. (or so it seems) . From what I can find, trackballs have 1 for power (+5V), 1 for Ground, and the rest for output?

Here are some pictures of what I've done. (which isn't much.) I didn't want to go too far and break every thing.

This first picture is the connectors that the analog stick was attached to. Kind of like the light sensors in a mouse. They were connected to each AXIS
user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

I know someone else was thinking about doing this.. anyways, if anyone has any ideas..

thanks.

Edited by maow, 26 October 2003 - 01:24 AM.


#2 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 01:23 AM

does no one have any ideas?

I think there should be a controller only fourm.

This seems like a hard drive only forum..

#3 M-K-E!

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 01:26 AM

are all 4 of those being used? i mean do all 4 of them have a current (would a multimeter tell you that??, i really dont know u just seemed like u wanted ideas)

thats all i can think of. unless u try trial and error, but that can take forever.........

or, if it does have a ground, can you just connect that to the contollers gound wire?

Edited by M-K-E!, 26 October 2003 - 01:28 AM.


#4 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 01:30 AM

do you know where the controller's ground wire is..

or where I can ground it to?

#5 M-K-E!

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 01:46 AM

is that a controller-s? it looks like it is so ill have to look around. but if you want to try sumtin. connect it to the spot where the thicker black wire from the cable connects to the board. if you want to do this to a fat controller, then ill find a pic, but i know there is a pic in the xbox-scene.com homepage in the tuts, hardware mods and choose the on/off switch on the controller mod. that will tell you wich one is the gound. (give me a minute ill like ya)

#6 M-K-E!

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 01:54 AM

ok, the one that sais ground is the ground wire (duh wink.gif ) and just ignore where it sais yellow wire, (the pic is from the on/off controller mod)

user posted image

#7 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 04:18 AM

okay, I've figured this much out. the left connection of the x-axis, and the bottom connection of the y-axis is the ground:

user posted image

And I found the power and ground of the trackball

user posted image

but now I have to find the tricky part of finding the input. Does anyone have any ideas?

#8 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 06:18 AM

okay, well I kinda feel like I'm talking to myself, but I hope there's someone out there who kinda thinks this is a good idea..

Anyways, I've wired it up every way I could think of, and it's not really working.

The trackball board is on the right. It's the same colour as the controller, so it's kinda hard to see.
user posted image

user posted image

I've got 2 wires per AXIS and 1 for power and 1 for ground. I know the ground and power are 100% correct.
user posted image

user posted image

I know it's doing something. Depending on how I have it wired up, it spins in different directions on it's own. And me moving the trackball doesn't do anything.

Any Ideas?

#9 krobby

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 08:08 AM

Twistedsymphony is working on the same thing, and i have more faith in him cause i like him. You might want to follow his progress and get in contact with him though.

#10 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 08:50 AM

hmm how about that?

I'll see if he has gotten farther..

#11 twistedsymphony

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 02:48 PM

yeah I'm doing the same thing...

depending on how you look at it I'm further ahead (because I know exactly what I'm doing and how to do this wink.gif ) or further behind (because I haven't started yet)

I spent about 3 weeks in research instead of just diving in....

here's the deal:
you can't just hook up the connections from the trackball and expect it to work... because it wont, ever.
those "3 pins" on the analog are a potentiometer aka "variable resistor" this means that the analog stick creates changes i voltage depending on its position and then this voltage is changed somewhere else on the controler (it might even be internally on one of the chips) into a 2 digit hex value which is then sent over the data line with the rest of the controler data...

the trackball works on a completely different system. there are Infrared emiters/detecters setup for each axis and those wheels with the knotches in them create pulses the position is then calculated with a pulse width.... the biggest problem here (becides it being in the absolute LEAST compadable format) is the format never changes... unlike the controler's analogs this pulse width for mouse signal is transfered straight from that form into the computer (or close to it) then each pulse corrosponds to a position change and...

the reason for the different formats is simple... the analog is designed with a refrence center (ie. it returns to center when you take your finger off) for this use an analog position sensor works best (potentiometer) the mouse/trackball on the other hand has no refrence center, it's movment is only relative to the last place it was and for that pulsewidth works best. just think how hard it would be for them to have to internally calculate change in position back to center with an analog stick if they used pulse width... I don know if you understand this but it'd pretty friggin difficult and mostly likely wouldn't center very well.

what I'm doing is I'm building a circuit that will calculate the velocity of the trackball and then convert that into a voltage relating to trackball position. I have all the chips and things to do this (more expensive than the trackball it self) but I can't go any further untill I get my hands on an oscilloscope and can monitor the mouse in use and see exactly what kind of signals it produces.

also with classes in the way and a 2 thesis papers to write it'll be slow moving.

and with that I say: GOOD LUCK

#12 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 06:12 PM

okay.. I'm not very knowlegable in electronics.. but hey I want this so bad that I wanted to give it a try.. but I got a question then in the following picture:

user posted image

Those are the devices that are connected to the controller's board for the analog stick. They have a circular disc inside with a thin wire around it. They can spin 360 degrees. I'm guessing it's this that creates the different voltage changes? or is it this in conjunction with the stick itself some how?

I always thought it was because the stick has a spring in it that it returned it to the center?

#13 maow

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 06:31 PM

okay.. I've got another Idea then. It's not perfect, and it might cause some problems playing, but it's a little bit closer. How about I attach those connectors to the trackball mechanics and not the controller board.

Here's my trackball:

user posted image

With the connectors they have a max value and a min value and that circular disc has a connection that touches the yellow thing:

user posted image

So if I connect them to my trackball here:

user posted image

I should get the same movements until I go too far and then the max turns to the min. (which isn't a desired result.)

I'd have to get some kind of spring or somehow block the disc from turning past a certain point.

#14 slavik

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (maow @ Oct 26 2003, 08:12 PM)
okay.. I'm not very knowlegable in electronics.. but hey I want this so bad that I wanted to give it a try.. but I got a question then in the following picture:

user posted image

Those are the devices that are connected to the controller's board for the analog stick. They have a circular disc inside with a thin wire around it. They can spin 360 degrees. I'm guessing it's this that creates the different voltage changes? or is it this in conjunction with the stick itself some how?

I always thought it was because the stick has a spring in it that it returned it to the center?

that's the rheostat ...

middle is for incomming power and the outer connections are for outgoing power ...

when you turn it one way, you get more power between the middle one and an outer one, turn it the other way, now the other outer one has more power ...




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