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Is Xbl Banning Legal?


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#1 fauljosh

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 09:40 AM

Here's an interesting question. Does MS have the legal right to ban members on XBL? Well, yes, technically they do. According to their own terms and conditions which plainly state that ANY modification to your Xbox can result in suspension...blah blah blah.

But what I'm wondering is this; is the way they're going about banning people legal? MS has absolutely NO right to look on our hard drives. Nor do they have the right to download ANYTHING on our hard drives without our consent. That's why any game that requires an update will ask you first if you want to download such content. If you don't agree to the downloading of that content you can say no, you just won't be able to play that game. That's your right.

So I think we should all band together, maybe get a lawyer on our side and find out exactly what they are doing to ban people. I really think they're looking at things on our hard drives they don't have the right to look at. Once that Xbox leaves their factory it's no longer theirs. Which means that any entry into that Xbox is an invasion of privacy. What they're doing amounts to tresspassing. And legally we have the right to shoot tresspassers on our property.
I say load your guns and shoot to kill. Just because Bill Gates is a billionaire doesn't mean he's above the law. I hope someone from M$ is reading this too. I'm sick of corporations getting away with bullying people around and trampling on their rights.

What's next TIVO checking all our machines to make sure that we're not recording football games without the express written consent of the NFL and the station airing the game? I mean come on.

#2 Midget^

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 09:47 AM

Yeah but.... Isn't the fact that you have a modded xbox (with illegal bios) illegal?

As long as they state in their terms & conditions what they are doing then they can do it.

MS aren't idiots, they wouldn't risk getting sued over something so stupid, it will be in their terms & conditions hidden away somewhere tongue.gif

Their fighting fire with fire innit dry.gif

Edited by Midget^, 22 October 2004 - 09:47 AM.


#3 bucko

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 02:48 PM

old news sleeping.gif and it would cost us millions of to do a trial and most of the people who are on our side would have a modded xbox and m$ will probebly win with the mighty bills capital.

#4 gamerguy999

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 04:35 PM

Also, while they do download stuff the our xbox's without consent, I don't think that they look at whats on the hard drive. The reason that you get banned when you try to go on live with your chip on is because it senses that you aren't using the original MS bios.

#5 enginenerd

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 05:22 PM

i also imagine that since M$ owns the live service they can (and do) operate it in any way they see fit. you're really only renting the service as long as you pay, and pay, and pay, and pay, etc.....

#6 wweboy

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 08:17 PM

no offense but your one of the people who would prob sue McDonalds if you had the chance. This would be a very stupid lawsuit and another dumb one we don't need to know about.

#7 fauljosh

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 08:48 PM

I've never sued anyone in my life. And that woman that sued over the coffee sued because the coffee was so hot it gave her third degree burns on her thighs. Was it her fault she spilled it? Yeah, most likely. Was it her fault it was near boiling temperatures and scarred her legs for life? No. Did she deserve the 7 million dollar settlement? Hell no. By the way that 7 million dollars is the amount of coffee sales McD's does in one day. A mere drop in the bucket for them.

But back to the point at hand. I'm not looking for any sort of monetary gain here. I don't want any money. I just don't like the idea of MS illegally using its' network to look inside my machine. Plain and simple.

Someone mentioned that MS owns the network therefore they can do what they please. Not true. It's very similiar to a landlord and his tenant. A lanlord CANNOT enter a tenants' home without giving that tenant 24 hour notification. Eventhough the landlord owns that property his rights to do what he pleases with it are limited. It's like this; your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins.



#8 acemilo

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 10:05 PM

MS has every right to ban anyone they want. When you sign up for live you agree to their terms if you read the EULA you will see that they reserve the right to discontinue your service for any reason they see fit. Seriously tho, the xbox is their intellectual property and they have every right to do anything they want thru live since you agreed to those terms when you signed up for live. Read the EULA.

#9 fauljosh

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 01:43 AM

Everyone seems to be missing the point here. I know that modding your xbox is in violation of their policies. I'm not questioning that. I never was. I mean we should all be banned. What I'm saying is that MS is using methods to detect things in our Xboxes that they don't have the legal right to be accessing.

They can ban whoever they want for any reason they want, it's their network. But they CANNOT I repeat CANNOT scan your harddrive for ANYTHING. And since they're basing these bannings on these illegal scans they can't legally ban you. If that makes sense to anyone.

It's like being fired because your boss broke into your house and caught you smoking pot. Yes you can be fired for smoking pot but the way he went about obtaining the information he used to fire you is illegal. So if a court case you would win.

#10 trentdadi

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 02:13 AM

Even if you did end up sueing, i can gaurentee you wont win. How do you think OJ got away with murder? The answer is a really fuckin good attorney and OJ doesnt make anywhere near what MS would be able to spend on a lawyer.

#11 DeadManWalking

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 02:25 AM

ok the way Ms looks at this way that your buying the right to (USE the xbox and the hardware) you as the buyer have no right to do so as Ms thinks or what Bill Gates thinks just like software your buying the rights to use it not (mod it or copy it) laugh.gif

#12 JORT

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 02:27 AM

Let's get it straight people, the man is not arguing MSs Right to stop service, but is the process in which they do it justified by the means of violating our rights. It is a fair arguement, but how do we know when M$ enters our Xbox's. This reminds of the Martha Stewart case of late, Her lawyers are arguing a similair justice inpropriety. What this very intelligent man is saying is, You have to have a warrent in order to search any property, How come internet is not measuring to this fundamental right. My answer George W. Bush and his trample of liberties, but you decide.


One more thing, If a person looks like they are doing crack because of a stereotype, or in modders world, because they have a 007 save or mechassault ...its not right for them to arrest you because of potential, as it would not be right for MS to search find the saves and automaticallly believe you were trying to softmod... Its wrong ... and the laws of America have not caught up to technology.

Edited by JORT, 23 October 2004 - 02:35 AM.


#13 JORT

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 02:32 AM

QUOTE (trentdadi @ Oct 23 2004, 03:16 AM)
Even if you did end up sueing, i can gaurentee you wont win. How do you think OJ got away with murder? The answer is a really fuckin good attorney and OJ doesnt make anywhere near what MS would be able to spend on a lawyer.

First of all, the lawyer used a technique usually shunned by the "Lawyers of America" and bring race when it comes to the Jury. Amazingly enough when their is 12 white males on a jury when convicting a black male....seems to be wrong. He may of got away with murder, but it is our courts who failed to protect us for so many years.

#14 heinrich

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 02:37 AM

QUOTE
MS may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; ( B ) retrieve information from the Xbox used to log onto the Service as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this Agreement; and upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service or any game from time to time without notice, which may involve the automatic download of related software directly to your Xbox, and which software may prevent your Xbox from accessing the Service.


Maybe you should call a lawyer instead of giving away yor opening statement on a public fourm. laugh.gif

Edited by heinrich, 23 October 2004 - 02:37 AM.


#15 gamerguy999

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 03:31 AM

Like I said before, MS Does not scan your hard drive, they just check your bios. They never actually check your hard drive.




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