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Extend The Life Expectance Of Your Modded 1.6


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#361 Chancer

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 07:12 PM

QUOTE
and also, with chips, they eitehr work or they dont. if was goign to fail, it would blow up straight away, or get hot and blow (but the longest time that that could be would be like 10mins).

Well that is absolute nonsense. That is a fact. I am a fully qulaified Technician. this is all I do for a living and the statement above is rubbish. Take for example a BU2508D as Line out transistor in a TV set. I get Sets in all the time with this part short circuit. the cause quite often is the line drive frequency is wrong which causes the Transistor to overheat as it is drawing too much current. A repeat failure of the transistor if the cause is left unresolved can be anything from a couple of minutes to over a week sometimes more so to state excess current would cause failure in at most 10 mins is not accurate at all.
QUOTE
he said that the chip can no way supply 65ma of current

What is this statement. Current is not SUPPLIED. The current is drawn The current in a circuit supplied by a fixed frequency output is dependant on the design and discrete components in the circuit.
Take a simple 12v power adapter that is rated at 800ma. This does not mean its output is 800ma. The current drawn from the adapter is dependant on the device connected to it. If its connected to say a programmer whose total current drawn id 8ma then that is it 8ma. The adapter does not kick out 800ma at the programmer.
If the chip determined the actual supply current which it does not there would be no problem because the current supplied could never exceed the output from the chip.
The theory behind all this as it came about was if the Lframe was held permanently to ground what would happen. So you measure the current in series with the circuit in both conditions (chip on chip off). Theory is the circuit draws excess current if the Lframe is held to ground permanent. To reduce the amount of current draw the signal can be pulsed. Some chips supposedly do this.
catdog2 was just looking at a way to reduce the current drawn when he posted this thread. Less current drawn = less thermal stress = better for the circuit concerned.


#362 jROC99

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 07:54 PM

hey chancer

Have you by any chance measured this with the new X3 CE??

looks like the chip layout is quite different.. wonder if Xecuter made some hidden changes smile.gif

if not i will at least measure the D0 on a V1.6 with the X3 CE.

I assume it will be held low as well.. but you never know.

jROC

#363 Chancer

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 07:54 PM

Update 18.00 GMT
Right just come from the workshop now after running some tests. The most interesting being without a modchip running and measuring the current in series. the current is 68ma. thats with the box running normal. I checked it 3 times to be sure.
With a Duo X2 in and enabled the current drawn is 52ma. This is less than the current drawn bog standard without the chip. Is this a problem ? No I don't think so.
Not able to test with an aladdin on this as I have none left in stock.
The meter is a Fluke 77 calibrated in Novemeber 2004 and used daily in repair work on TV Digisat etc so is not some cheap Radio shack one.
Any thoughts or conclusions from anyone

#364 Chancer

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 08:04 PM

Not had chance to measure an X3 yet. Its a chip I rarely buy as all my customers are poor biggrin.gif so they always jump for the cheapest price install. I would be interested if anyone could measure the current before and after and post the results

#365 jROC99

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 08:08 PM

Ok..i'll do a bit of testing on teh X3 CE.. I already know the original X3 holds it low all the time. I measured it.

And I suspect the X3 CE does as well.

I agree with you tho.. this might be a potential issue over the long term.
But if its like 5 years.. then i would say no worries.
Cause the console will be outdated by then.

I've done alot of V1.6 with all kinds of chips..so far nothing returned cause the chip fried the box.

jROC

#366 zikronix

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE(jROC99 @ Jan 30 2005, 07:14 PM)
Ok..i'll do a bit of testing on teh X3 CE.. I already know the original X3 holds it low all the time. I measured it.

And I suspect the X3 CE does as well.

I agree with you tho.. this might be a potential issue over the long term.
But if its like 5 years.. then i would say no worries.
Cause the console will be outdated by then.

I've done alot of V1.6 with all kinds of chips..so far nothing returned cause the chip fried the box.

jROC

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I would be curious to know this as well

#367 Mika--

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 11:46 PM

Okay, i have a 1.6 Crystal with SmartXX V2 inside. Should i get worried? ohmy.gif

#368 truBB

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 01:09 AM

QUOTE(Mika-- @ Jan 30 2005, 10:52 PM)
Okay, i have a 1.6 Crystal with SmartXX V2 inside. Should i get worried?  ohmy.gif

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Yes, I'd be worried, but don't be. Smartxx has noticed this problem, thats why they created the 1.6c rebuild board. It was just recently released (annonced, January 17,2005) so you prolly don't have it installed. So do as they suggested so far (install the resistor & cut the trace), OR pull your rebuild kit/LPC wire rebuild and install the new one shown below.

user posted image

#369 kbarton77

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 06:03 AM

Chancer are you saying that this is not a problem then, because it was stated earlier that the current draw from a x2 or 3 was 65 mA and if you messured 68 mA with no modchip installed then we should not even be having a discusssion about xbox failures!

I'm lost I'm going to have to do these tests myself now to see what really is happening.

How did you messure in series with the chip did you cut the trace?

Thanks

Kbarton

#370 Mika--

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 07:39 AM

QUOTE(truBB @ Jan 31 2005, 01:15 AM)
Yes, I'd be worried, but don't be. Smartxx has noticed this problem, thats why they created the 1.6c rebuild board.  It was just recently released (annonced, January 17,2005) so you prolly don't have it installed. So do as they suggested so far (install the resistor & cut the trace), OR pull your rebuild kit/LPC wire rebuild and install the new one shown below.

user posted image

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The picture at the first page doesn't work for me, so is there somewhere a pic which informs which trace i should cut and where i should install the resistor?

#371 catdog2

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 10:01 AM

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 30 2005, 07:00 PM)
Right just come from the workshop now after running some tests. The most interesting being without a modchip running  and measuring the current in series. the current is 68ma. thats with the box running normal. I checked it 3 times to be sure.

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Can you please clarify exactly where this measurement was made between. The current that flows without a modchip is virtually zero (current will only flow on data transistions, and will be in opposite directions - no DC current flows). I have checked this by cutting the LFRAME trace and putting a multimeter in series with the cut - maximum measurement values shown were 0.01mA (which is the resolution of this meter). An oscilloscope with a current probe is required to make any further measurements that provide useful information - but the values are so small they are not worth measuring.

Your measurement suggests you placed one lead on LFRAME and the other lead on GND? If so then this is the same as grounding LFRAME directly (through the low resistance of the meter). If this is not how you measured this value, can you please provide a detailed explanation or diagram of what the measurement is of.

Thanks

Mika-- The diagram can be found here:
http://img.photobuck...storinstall.jpg

#372 Chancer

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 02:48 PM

Sorry I have confused everybody with my poor explanations and bits missed. What I did was cut the trace and measure with the meter either end with the chip off and the current was 0.005ma which I would assume is normal as there is no load nothing on the output.
What has confused me is when measuring from Lframe to ground (which I realise will increase the current flow due to the internal resistance of the meter) I though the figure of 68ma was very high. The point i was trying to make or clear up is why should the current when measured the same way with the duo X2 enabled be lower than with the chip disabled if the Duo was now thought to ground the Lframe direct which surely would result in an increase in current drawn over the amount caused by just having the meter connected this way. Surely this would indicate that the Duo does in some way pulse the Lframe. Or is there still a problem?
I know it would have been better to measure the chip enabled mode with the meter in series with the D0 pad but I could not get the chip to enable.
I hope this makes more sense, probably not. biggrin.gif

Edited by Chancer, 31 January 2005 - 02:48 PM.


#373 Mika--

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE(catdog2 @ Jan 31 2005, 10:07 AM)
Mika-- The diagram can be found here:
http://img.photobuck...storinstall.jpg

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Well, thats a little hard to do cause my SmartXX LPC-rebuild board is over those points, and im not good at soldering so little components... sad.gif

So, i will do nothing, hopefully my box doesnt blow up dry.gif

#374 catdog2

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 09:30 AM

I finally got hold of a duox2 chip and tested it:

user posted image

The current measured was 48mA, which is lower than some other chips but is still higher than it should be.

The duox2 does not pull LFRAME to 0V (the modchip cannot sink this level of current?) but only down to about 1.2V. This is still seen as a logic low by the xbox so has the same effect as grounding it completely (this is not good practice - the voltage should be as close to 0V as possible in a CMOS circuit).

The confusion about Duox2 pulsing LFRAME has come about because of this. Shown on the diagram below is another view of LFRAME with the modchip enabled. Without looking at the scale it looks like the line is changing between low and high levels. Notice that because it is never going up to the arrow marked at 3.3V it is actually changing between low and low (as far as the xbox is concerned). The X3 modchip operates in a very similar manner (pulls level down to about 0.8V) and has a similar current to the duox2 (51mA measured on X3).

user posted image

Conclusion: DUOX2 does not pulse LFRAME. It holds LFRAME logic low in the same way other modchips tested do.

#375 ivwshane

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:22 AM

My head hurts:(




Can we dumb it down to the level of about a third grader:p


I think most of us just want to know what chips might cause premature failure and which ones wont.




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