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Media Issues-please Look In


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#1 jesterrace777

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:12 PM

Okay, enough people keep coming on here with media isssues, that I have decided to make this thread about Media Manufacturers, ect. Mods can feel free to pin this if they like, I will put a link to it in my sig for future reference.

First of all let us dispell some myths about media. Most store brands DO NOT ACTUALLY MAKE THEIR OWN MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!! They outsource to a number of different manufacturers and they are often the culprit when it comes to crappy media. Traditionally name brands like Verbatim, TDK, Fujifilm, ect. have outsourced to good quality manufacturers (ie Taiyo Yuden, Ritek, Mitsubishi Chemicals) so they have earned a good name for themselves. The problem is that you are playing russian roulette by going this route. They don't always outsource to quality manufacturers so you can get very different results from batch to batch and in fact, most brands now seem to be outsourcing most of their media to Taiwanese companies such as CMC Magnetics and Prodisc. While these manufacturers aren't complete crap, there are definitely better options out there for the money. You can narrow it down a bit by looking at where the particular batch of media was made (ie Made In Japan is usually Taiyo Yuden but under the Fujifilm and Maxell labels you can find a Fuji, produced disc or a maxell produced disc), but there is still no 100% gaurantee.

The best way to avoid all this hassle is to order media that comes straight from the manufacturer. Then you never have to play guessing games with who is producing the media. The following list is a ranking of media manufacturers by quality and error rates. Keep in mind that it isn't just a question of whether or not a disc works but how long it will last as well. Error rate scans done by multiple people on several different forums will back up my list. Error rate scans are the best predictors of media durability, the lower the error rate, the better the media. There is no such thing as media that is 100% compatible but some of it comes really close. Anyways, here is the breakdown:

Taiyo Yuden (TY)-clearly the champ for media durability and compatibility. This is the media most often used by the companies that manufacture DVD Burners, in order to bench test their burners and develop specs for them. This stands true for both DVD-R and DVD+R formats. Now it should be noted that there are a number of Taiyo Yuden "fakes" out there. They are media primarily made by infosmart in Hong Kong and they use the Taiyo Yuden media manufacturer ID on their discs, so when you do a media ID scan it shows the same code as Taiyo Yuden. You can easily avoid these by sticking to the actual Taiyo Yuden brand or one of the major store labels that is Made In Japan. Just avoid picking up media like Matrix, Sonic, ect. that claims to have the Taiyo Yuden media ID code.

Ricoh-For the DVD+R camp this one follows very closely on the heels of Taiyo Yuden, it is quite popular because of it's lower cost, yet high compatibility and lower error rate scans. Unfortunately picking up this media can be a bit of a gamble as there aren't many places that stock Ricoh's own media. You can find Ricoh on some batches of Ritek DVD+R, Memorex DVD+R, Verbatim DVD+R. However, as mentioned above that isn't gauranteed so keep that in mind.

Mitsubishi Chemicals (MCC)-This one also ranks very high for compatibility and media durability (just a hair lower than Taiyo Yuden and Ricoh). Like Ricoh however, you aren't very likely to find Mitsubishi Chemicals labeled discs. Where you usually find MCC is on the store label Verbatim. Verbatim discs produced in Singapour and Taiwan use the MCC dye (The Verbatims made in Japan are Taiyo Yuden wink.gif ). However, it should be noted that even though the Taiwanese made discs carry the MCC dye, they are actually produced by CMC Magnetics which means they are subject to lower quality standards. If you go the MCC route then try to get the Singapour produced Verbatims as they are "true MCC" produced discs and even though they use the same dye are subject to a more rigid quality control standard.
Once again, I am not saying the Taiwanese (CMC) produced MCC dye Verbatims aren't bad, but your money will be better spent on the Singapour produced ones.
This stands true for DVD-R/DVD+R (unless the DVD+R happen to be produced by Ricoh)

Ritek G03/G04-Ritek is tough because you have to break it up by the generation (some are much better than others). The G03/G04 Riteks are a very popular cost-effective choice. They are excellent for compatibility and usually give decent error rate scans. If you live in the UK, I really recommend these since they are significantly cheaper than Taiyo Yuden in that location. I also recommend sticking with Ritek/Ridata for best results (there are some B-Grade Ritek discs under other labels) This is for DVD-R.

Okay, now we get down into the "so-so" and crappy category. These are manufacturers/dyes that I DO NOT recommend. Not only are they hit and miss from individual to individual, they also produce very erratic error rate scans. It's hard to get consistency for both categories with these manufacturers.

CMC Magnetics-Hit and Miss for compatibility and media durability. You can usually find them on Memorex, TDK, Maxell, Imation, Khypermedia, ect. As mentioned above, that doesn't mean that the discs listed above are always CMC Mag but there is a good chance that they are. This stands true for DVD-R and DVD+R.

Prodisc-At one time these were heralded as a cheaper alternative to Ritek G03/G04, but after that there were enough hit and miss results with these that they quickly fell in with the likes of CMC Mag. You can often find this manufacturer on Memorex, Khypermedia, ect. This stands true for DVD-R and DVD+R.

Ritek G05/M02/R02/R03-These are all the low-end Ritek dyes for both DVD-R and DVD+R. Unfortunately the G05 don't have the reputation of their G03/G04 predecessors. Like CMC they are hit and miss (work great for some, complete crap for others). M02 seems to be Ritek G04's evil twin. It is a 4x Ritek DVD-R dye but it has caused all sorts of problems for people. Thankfully it doesn't show up very often. R02 and R03 are Ritek DVD+R dyes and are a far cry from the quality of their Ricoh counterparts.

Optodisc-Like all of the others they are hit and miss for compatibility and error rate scans. This is true for both DVD-R and DVD+R

Princo-These are just about the bottom of the barrel for compatibility and error rate scans. Plenty of stories of people who have had whole stacks of these quit working on them after less than 2 years of use (despite taking the best care of them).

Keep in mind that the Samsung drive will almost certainly require you to adjust the booktype/bitsetting option to DVD-ROM before you can get any DVD+R to work on them. This allows the disc to be read more like a factory pressed disc. This only applies for DVD+R though and you don't need to worry about it if you have a Phillips or Thomson drive in your XBOX. Not all burners support the booktype/bitsetting feature, so you will need to look into that. Some will do it with a firmware update. Check out rpc1.org for firmware updates.

I hope this helps you guys out and saves ya some money, good luck. wink.gif

Edited by jesterrace777, 07 January 2005 - 10:13 PM.


#2 JWJ

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Posted 08 January 2005 - 03:27 AM

PIN THIS beerchug.gif

#3 ILLusions0fGrander

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 03:31 AM

about time jester... deserves a pin.

id color code the brands in the post so that people can easily see the brand they are seeking answers for.

other than that.. good job!

#4 jesterrace777

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 03:38 AM

I would but I can't edit the post. If a mod would do it for me, I would greatly appreciate it. wink.gif

#5 Patriot

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 06:45 PM

I realize that the demographic on this forum may not be the same as the one that follows DVD recording in general for data and video on other forums so you see at lot of comments about Princos here that were debuked years ago in those venues with stories of data loss and sadness. Burning and working well today is nice but what about in six months, 1 year, or 2 years? Perhaps when you start noticing the discs failing you will be able to salvage most of the backups by making backups on quality media the second time around.

The proper media is only the first step. To the person that doesn't follow DVD recording like a science the easiest thing you can do is to go to the physical retail store like Best Buy, Office Depot, Staples, Circuit City, CompUSA, OfficeMax, ect. when they throw Fuji, Maxell, or Sony brand DVD+R or DVD-R discs on sale. Right now the going rate for sales are 50 packs for $19.99 or 100 packs for $39.99. Then look on the packaging for made in japan, usually around the UPC code. There is really no crap or mediocre media from japan. If it says Made in Taiwan, India, China, ect. skip it. While there is decent media from those countries there is no way to determine if you will get it. I also recommend staying away from Internet based sales if you don't know what you're doing. So many users fall into the trap of buying media with the Taiyo Yuden media code online and think that's what they got. What often happens is you get some cheap disc manufacturer that stole the TY media code to increase their compatibility in DVD burners. The disc is still crap and usually no cheaper than the retail prices I quoted above for made in japan media.

Now that you've chosen the best media you need a burner that burns it correctly. Don't be cheap and do your research. If you don't want to then buy yourself a Pioneer DVR-108 or Benq 1620. Both are easy to setup, cheap, and work well out of the box. Do NOT buy a Lite-ON or any manufacturer that rebadges Lite-ON DVD writers. They were the king of CD writers but rank last in almost every DVD write quality test there is.

Now that you've chosen the best media and a burner that writes well you need to store them properly. Don't put labels on them. Don't put them in plastic sleeves or CD/DVD wallets. Put them in DVD or slim line cases and label the case. Store in cool, dark place out of the sun.

You can either learn from other's past mistakes or reinvent the wheel by making the same historical mistakes others have made. Then perhaps you can use them as life experiences for your next project.

#6 Mr Ed

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE(jesterrace777 @ Jan 8 2005, 08:09 PM)
I would but I can't edit the post.  If a mod would do it for me, I would greatly appreciate it. wink.gif

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I'm working on that jesterrace777. beerchug.gif

#7 jesterrace777

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 07:53 PM

Yeah, go ahead and move or remove the Princo posts as they really aren't helping anybody out. As for pinning the topic, I understand about the number of pins and will leave it up to you. Either way I posted this just to have a reference point since there are so many media issue threads posted in here and I will just keep it linked in my sig. Makes things easier than going through extensive detail over and over again.

Edited by jesterrace777, 09 January 2005 - 07:55 PM.


#8 Mr Ed

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 11:39 PM

I moved the Princo specific comments to this thread:
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=337624


#9 lordvader129

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 12:01 AM

i added this thread to the list of important topics a while ago, although unfortuantely few people read all teh way through that, kindof stuck between a rock adn a hard place, give each topi its own pin an dget a sloppy loking forum or condense them into a single "read first" thread and have peopel not read it, lol

#10 bitblaster

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 12:30 AM

in other words, TDK media should work?

#11 lordvader129

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 02:55 AM

QUOTE(bitblaster @ Jan 9 2005, 06:01 PM)
in other words, TDK media should work?

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it has a better chance of being good, since it is outsourced you might get one that was made cheap

#12 jesterrace777

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 03:35 AM

Generally speaking TDK is CMC Mag, so it is "so-so" Ritek G04 can be had for about the same price so I would go for that instead.

#13 xokia

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 02:48 AM

QUOTE
So many users fall into the trap of buying media with the Taiyo Yuden media code online and think that's what they got. What often happens is you get some cheap disc manufacturer that stole the TY media code to increase their compatibility in DVD burners. The disc is still crap and usually no cheaper than the retail prices I quoted above for made in japan media.


I have yet to purchase any media online yet, I buy from a local store fuji made in japan media. Its cheap around my area. 50 discs for $16.00 when on sale.

So how does one ensure they are getting Taiyo Yuden when purchasing online?

Edited by xokia, 12 January 2005 - 02:50 AM.


#14 jesterrace777

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 03:42 AM

You are one lucky man if you can get MIJ DVDR Fujis for that cheap. As for ordering them, you just get Taiyo Yuden's own brand from http://www.rima.com or another trusted site. The fakes are all relabeled discs that have the same Manufacturers ID code as TY. It shows up when you run a scan on it with DVD Decrypter, DVDinfopro,ect. As mentioned you can avoid all of this by picking up TY's own label instead of a no-name label claiming to be Taiyo Yuden. Outside of that, the way you are doing it is the second best way. Picking up MIJ media from a major manufacturer (ie Fuji, Verbatim, TDK) is a good way to ensure that you are getting Taiyo Yuden. The catch there is that not everyone stocks the MIJ media in the store labels so it can be a bit of a crap shoot and the current trend seems to be leaning more and more towards Taiwanese manufacturers (ie CMC Magnetics and Prodisc). My local best buy only has about 4-5 spindles of MIJ Fuji DVD-R media left. Everything else is made in Taiwan. That and they want $40+tax for the spindle of 50 which is rediculous since I can get the actual TY discs in 50 packs from rima for about $30 shipped. This is why I generally recommend that people buy straight from the manufacturer and save some money and avoid the hassle. However, in your case, you are getting one hell of a deal by picking up the TY fujis. It just varries from location to location.

This is the list of confirmed TY fakes:

Fake 8x DVD-R brands:
Bulkpaq 8x DVD-R
Budget 8x DVD-R
Mirror 8x DVD-R
Fortis 8x DVD-R
Datawrite RED 8x DVD-R
Infosmart 8x DVD-R (at least the printable version)
Hyundai 8x DVD-R
Matrix 8x DVD-R
Dupsonic 8x DVD-R
Laser 8x DVD-R
Kapi 8x DVD-R
Sonic 8x DVD-R

Fake 8x DVD+R brands:
Hyundai 8x DVD+R
Mirror 8x DVD+R

Edited by jesterrace777, 12 January 2005 - 03:51 AM.


#15 JWJ

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 04:30 AM

QUOTE(jesterrace777 @ Jan 11 2005, 11:13 PM)
You are one lucky man if you can get MIJ DVDR Fujis for that cheap.  As for ordering them, you just get Taiyo Yuden's own brand from http://www.rima.com or another trusted site.  The fakes are all relabeled discs that have the same Manufacturers ID code as TY.  It shows up when you run a scan on it with DVD Decrypter, DVDinfopro,ect.  As mentioned you can avoid all of this by picking up TY's own label instead of a no-name label claiming to be Taiyo Yuden. Outside of that, the way you are doing it is the second best way.  Picking up MIJ media from a major manufacturer (ie Fuji, Verbatim, TDK) is a good way to ensure that you are getting Taiyo Yuden.  The catch there is that not everyone stocks the MIJ media in the store labels so it can be a bit of a crap shoot and the current trend seems to be leaning more and more towards Taiwanese manufacturers (ie CMC Magnetics and Prodisc).  My local best buy only has about 4-5 spindles of MIJ Fuji DVD-R media left.  Everything else is made in Taiwan.  That and they want $40+tax for the spindle of 50 which is rediculous since I can get the actual TY discs in 50 packs from rima for about $30 shipped.  This is why I generally recommend that people buy straight from the manufacturer and save some money and avoid the hassle.  However, in your case, you are getting one hell of a deal by picking up the TY fujis.  It just varries from location to location. 

This is the list of confirmed TY fakes:

Fake 8x DVD-R brands:
Bulkpaq 8x DVD-R
Budget 8x DVD-R
Mirror 8x DVD-R
Fortis 8x DVD-R
Datawrite RED 8x DVD-R
Infosmart 8x DVD-R (at least the printable version)
Hyundai 8x DVD-R
Matrix 8x DVD-R
Dupsonic 8x DVD-R
Laser 8x DVD-R
Kapi 8x DVD-R
Sonic 8x DVD-R

Fake 8x DVD+R brands:
Hyundai 8x DVD+R
Mirror 8x DVD+R

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Man Jesterrace I'm suprised you didn't include those sonic dvd-rs at shop4tech.com laugh.gif




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