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What Xbox Services Are You Allowed To Offfer (us)


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#1 CrystalXBOX

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 09:04 PM

Hi there. I see so many websites offering modchip installations, etc, etc. So I felt like asking a few questions. What are the legalities of offering mod chip installations via the web? Rules, locales? I know everywhere is different, but I would think that for the same reason (the apps being built with the XDK) that the apps themselves are illegal in nature, but what about mod chip installation itself. I repair boxes, do led modifications etc, but offer no other serives. But what if someone wants a larger hard drive, etc, etc.. does the apps themselves or the modchip or both make it illegal to offer, atleast in the US? Again, just curious as I see theres a slew of places offering upgrades, I know cause i'm looking for a ram upgrade right now smile.gif Thanks!!!!

#2 Skitals

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 03:10 AM

I personally wont sell a modchip or other hardware/software to a customer, but I will install and do any custom work they want. The way I figure it... Im only offering a service and not selling any physical product at all, so it's not my problem. Even if the modchip or software was illegal... it's not like you sold it to them or made it.

#3 irfan

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 05:39 AM

im not sure why its illegal, after all you are allowed to modify your computer all you want, and you are allowed to copy dvds you own. you can record tv and all that as long as its all for private use. as long as you arent stealing (ripping games you dont own) then i relaly dont see how it coudl be illegal. you pay for the xbox, its yours. you arent polluting the environment, etc etc.. sure, you lose the warranty, and thats expected.

i dont think the argument against installing software for the "im helping someone steal games etcetc" argument is valid, because for all i know they are using the space to store games they already own or to store movies, music, etc. however i think that in order to get to that point you would have to alter MSs code, and thru the strange workign of the DCMA im sure they coudl find a reason to pin you. but people dont get permission from MS to write windows programs either so its still pretty up in the air isnt it? you are allowed legally to modify your xbox for personal reasons i believe. welling modchips is not illegal just as selling Catalytic converter-less test pipes isnt illegal. installin it knowing they will break the law with your services probably is illegal tho, but ignorance is bliss isnt it. dont ask why they need it, dont ask what games they own, etc.

if modchips were illegal this site would have been shut down. the software is still iffy so i think the site takes a safer approach by not offering it, which im fine with.


Edited by irfan, 07 April 2005 - 05:42 AM.


#4 datad0g

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 07:12 AM

Selling a mod'd xbox with a cromwell bios is legal.

Its once you put an illegal bios, dash or game/move on it that it becomes illegal.

If you buy a pre-mod they come with the chip installed, but with the legal (cromwell) bios. Doing this is quite legal

Just dont be stupid and start charging for other peoples code, or games, movies or music "pre-installed".

#5 The Zep Man

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 07:17 AM

In most countries it is legal if you do sell a modchip (installed or not) without any copyrighted MS-code in the chip(s?). That's why Cromwell is made. Technically spoken: by origin MOD-chips are 'supposed' to be used with open-source software like Linux (Cromwell can boot Linux). biggrin.gif

I seriously can't imagine somebody is going to flash an illegal BIOS on a modchip. blink.gif biggrin.gif

#6 CrystalXBOX

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 08:03 AM

Pretty much along the lines of what i've learned. So if they purchase a modchip with a cromwell bios and you install it for them, no problem. They do what they want with it. It all stems back to the M$ XDK I imagine. But what wonderful programmers we have in the xbox "scene" with such great apps and emulators for older consoles, it's actually unfortunate that it's so secretive when people in the retail world would drool and snatch them up if they could pick up an xbox the way ours are right now.

What about an xbox with a bad hard drive. The only way to fix it is to chip it, so it's such that even changing a hard drive is "bad".. People should buy and support their consoles manufactures, because if not, it will meet an earlier demise (commodore computers ring a bell).. We used to have swap meets. smile.gif Today they would get a paddy wagon. Anyways, so I guess the bottom line is..

XBOX with cromwell bios installed on chip ----> ok

Other than that, no.




#7 TrigunXBox

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 08:17 AM

QUOTE(irfan @ Apr 7 2005, 04:45 AM)
im not sure why its illegal, after all you are allowed to modify your computer all you want, and you are allowed to copy dvds you own.  you can record tv and all that as long as its all for private use.  as long as you arent stealing (ripping games you dont own) then i relaly dont see how it coudl be illegal.  you pay for the xbox, its yours. 


Not really. With the DMCA out, it's all a gray area now. It is illegal to copy your own DVDs. And if you read into it, you can't record live TV. If you could, they would make Tivos with DVD-Rs in them. Oh, and if MS has there way, it will be illegal to modify your own computer or install "unapproved" software. They are working on it for the next version of Windows.

Having a modchip is illegal, even with no bios on it. It can be used to get around the encryption built into the TOSP.
Search for "sharpie dvd encryption" to see how stupid this has all become.



#8 The Zep Man

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 10:10 AM

QUOTE(TrigunXBox @ Apr 7 2005, 07:23 AM)
Having a modchip is illegal, even with no bios on it. It can be used to get around the encryption built into the TOSP. 
Search for "sharpie dvd encryption" to see how stupid this has all become.

View Post

Shortly said: ANYTHING you can use to 'get around the encryption built in the BIOS' is illegal? blink.gif

What if you do NOT get around it, but simply run your own code from the start (Cromwell) and your own application (Linux)... you do not 'get around anything', but only use your own code, which does not contain the encryption-lines. This way, you can't even 'decrypt' or run code which still is 'encrypted' (Xbox Applications). This way: you do not get around anything; you simply head in another direction. beerchug.gif

[edit!]

Last time I checked, the Xbox hardware you buy for $/ 150 is from you and you only. If you remove the MS-code from your hardware (After all, it is THEIR code on YOUR hardware! You do not modify it; you simply remove it.)... can't see why that would be illegal. dry.gif

Edited by The Zep Man, 07 April 2005 - 10:13 AM.


#9 TrigunXBox

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 04:13 PM

Oops, that should be "sharpie cd encryption".

Now we are just pushing this to the far extreme, but the DMCA still covers it.

Putting Linux on the XBox may be lighter gray areas. Your still removing or bypassing encryption on the TOSP, that's a no-no. And if you use a mod chip, then you could use the chip to bypass the encryption and copy XBox games. Big no-no.

It all depends on how far the legal guy want to take it.


#10 sapper

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 06:51 PM

In the US having a mod chip is not illegal. It is however illegal to have any software on your system built with stolen MS XDK software or a bios built on XDK.

#11 irfan

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 09:46 PM

QUOTE(TrigunXBox @ Apr 7 2005, 02:23 AM)
Not really. With the DMCA out, it's all a gray area now. It is illegal to copy your own DVDs.  And if you read into it, you can't record live TV. If you could, they would make Tivos with DVD-Rs in them. 

View Post




and this is.... http://www.tivo.com/2.1.2.asp ???

#12 CrystalXBOX

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE(irfan @ Apr 7 2005, 08:52 PM)
and this is....  http://www.tivo.com/2.1.2.asp  ???

View Post



Don't mind straying a little bit.. I checked your link to the TIVO DVD recorder. It would seem that you have to stay connected to a broadband connections. My question on that is, do they monitor and even possibly block you from recording certain content are able to see what it is you do record. I hate anything that needs a land/cable line plugged in to operate. Of course i'm sure it can be hacked and we're back to square one smile.gif




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