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Piracy Or Production Costs


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#1 mrjkwik

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 06:47 AM

Well, I was killing time today walking the mall with my kids and stopped by an EBGames. While I was talking with the manager, I told him how I had given my son a choice, either I mod a virgin box for him to play emulators and a couple other games on (he's 6), or get a DS. He gave me a little flack (though not much since I am an "occasional" customer) saying how I shouldn't talk about it because the FBI had made like 20 some arrests in the last 3 months. He also said that piracy has caused a huge dump in the industry and thats why he can only afford to pay his part-timers $6 and change and how he isn't making the money that he used to due to the crash in sales.

Now, considering I'm willing to bet those "arrests" he was talking about were installers who were dumb enough to put games on the hd, but I found the "dont talk about it" comment pretty lame at best.

Second, imo, I think its been the huge production costs on games that giving the industry a hard time. If the production costs goes up, I'd guess that the wholesale costs would go up, but they would keep the retail at the same level to push sales. Why would the developers care if the stores got 20 per game rather than 25? Now, I don't care to spend a ton of money on games. Never have. And I really only play about 2-3 favorites. Others I've had got traded in on a second box. So piracy really isnt an issue for me. If i did, there would be no point. The games would just sit on the harddrive and never get played. I have a feeling a lot of people do that. Rip a bunch of games from blockbuster or what not, just to have them, but never play them. And even if i did do something like that, the industry wouldnt have lost my dollar, because i wouldnt have bought the game to begin with.

Just wondering what everyone elses opinion is. Less profit for stores due to game piracy, or rising production costs of games?

Edited by mrjkwik, 08 July 2005 - 06:53 AM.


#2 ILLusions0fGrander

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 06:56 AM

my opinion is (if) game sales suck, its because games suck.
rushed crap lately... games arent what they used to be.


#3 DjO

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 07:38 AM

well piracy has always been a big issue with games.
I don't think the percent of people pirating games to the people actually buying them has changed that much. Sure the number in both catagories has gone up but it's probably still around the same percent.

#4 Keshire

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:11 AM

Well when game studio's are outsourcing for CGI and cutscenes among other things then you know productions costs are insane. I'm goign with production costs. Plus if anything the percent of game piracy is steady with the past. Music on the other hand has sky rocketed because of the ease of getting it and the size. And I beleive people base their game piracy statistics on that. Which is bogus.

#5 iwannadie

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:19 AM

QUOTE(ILLusions0fGrander @ Jul 8 2005, 12:07 AM)
my opinion is (if)  game sales suck, its because games suck.
rushed crap lately... games arent what they used to be.

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exactly, the whole game market is flooded. a company puts out a particular game if it happens to sell well then every other company is trying to cash in with copies of that genre/style whatever and they suck so they dont sell. or movie based games, they think because the movie made millions a game will pull in just as much but they dont cause the games suck.

i know piracy has its effects but so does poor quality games and over saturation of the same games. if a company invests millions then the game doesnt do well at all of course they loose money, but if the game sucks noone is pirating it anyways so you cant blame that. good games will be bought by the masses, look at halo2 it got leaked way early was every where to be downloaded yet it sold huge. easly the most accessable game at the time to pirate but people went and bought it which says alot(if you actually like halo).

#6 Stratus

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 11:34 AM

In my opinion most people do buy there games, and a small percentage pirate, so I don't see how it could make a "HUGE" impact at all


#7 chris86wm

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:47 PM

In my opinion most people don't know how mod an xbox. To the people at xbox-scene modding is common knowlege, but to common people modding is just not thought about much. I dont believe there is enough pirates to bring down sales. It's simply crappy games.

#8 darth_turtur

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 06:20 PM

Piracy has been in existence long before the Xbox. I remember when I used to borrow my Cousin's Audio tapes and "dub" it to a blank TDK tape (remember those?!?) Anyway, I think a lot of people over-estimate the piracy activity going on today.

There are millions of Xbox users in the US alone. Not even a quarter of this population own a modded Xbox. Half of them don't even know what a modded Xbox is. Fact in point is, I can only remember 2 games in recent memory that could be considered a "good game". I for one am not a supporter of piracy, but I think there's a fine line.

Here's 2 scenarios...

1 - A kid owns an unmodded Xbox but doesn't buy games because he has the monthly membership with Blockbuster where he can rent unlimited number of games for $19.99 a month and doesn't feel the need to own any of them because the games are always readily available.

2 - Someone owns a modded Xbox and goes to the same blockbuster to rent games and burn it to his HD, hence never buying games too.

Different people, different situation, same exact results. No sales.

Am I condoning piracy? Abosulutely not. But the above examples illustrate that the gaming industry is not only competing with each other, but now they have outside factors that they need to figure in as well. Maybe if the quality of these games meet and exceed all of our expectations then I'm sure that game sales figures will go up. But until they realize the mediocrity will not be supported and celebrated, the industry can continue to falsely blame factors that contribute to their state of loss.

Just my thought...

#9 krustytheclown

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 07:32 PM

If the industry wants to complain about piracy, start pushing bb or hollywood video to stop the game rental plans. I know a good amount of people who just pay $20 a month to BB, and never buy games. They figure there is no need.

Start pushing MS for more money. How much money does the average developer/publisher make for every $50 game that is sold?

#10 darth_turtur

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 12:31 AM

I'm in the logistics industry and we deal with manufacturers operating offshore (China, Taiwan, etc.). The average cost of production of an xbox game is about $0.89. But then you have to factor in development of the game, planning, marketing, and other promotional media like ads on TV and stuff. This would push the actual overhead cost to millions of dollars (an example would be Tiger Woods '06 where EA spent close to $4 Million)

Here's where it all comes together. Most developers (not all) make about $8 per unit sold (after paying their distributors, license fees, and other entities to carry their games). So say a game sells a million copies. At an average of $8 per game, they already made $8 Million for that one game.

Now are they really losing money or is it that they want to make more money?

Hmm, I guess we'll never know.

#11 The Zep Man

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 11:09 AM

A bit off-topic, but..

How much 'damage' does the industry REALLY take thanks to 'piracy'? They count every 'pirated' copy as one retail game less sold, while almost all pirates would never even buy the game at all if it wouldn't be available as a pirated game. The industry also calculates the number of 'pirated' copies in some strange, unknown way.

Does the industry REALLY suffer from piracy? There is a BIG difference between 'having a bit less profit than calculated' and 'losing money'.

Off course, pirating a game is never right. But I don't think that one pirated copy of a game is one less sold retail copy.

#12 krustytheclown

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:22 PM

I know a few people that do believe in that idea. They figure: "Hey I wouldn't buy the game anyways, so no one is losing out".

#13 SOLO-X

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 02:50 PM

I purchase my games 2nd hand so the developerís money is already made when I make my purchase, well technically they make their money when the distributor purchases it. The only corporation profiting from me is the store I purchase the used game from, and they make more on the sales of used games than selling new ones. They give next to nothing for a trade-in

#14 deftonesmx17

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 03:30 PM

Piracy has never been a problem. The market just wants to blame something and piracy is an easy target.

The music industry is my favorite. They say they have lost profits due to piracy, but if you look it up, record sales have gone through the roof since MP3 sharing programs. Low record sales my ass. I get sick of seeing the multi-million dollar singers bitching. "Oh no I might not be able to buy that fourth Ferrari." rolleyes.gif But the low money making bands love P2P because it gets them heard and they understand that concert sales are their money anyways.
The movie industry has created their own evil. Piracy is no problem for it. Maybe its the fact that they give in and pay one actor $20 million for one movie. Then they have to pay for the movie. So they spend $100 million to make a movie because they need to add Matrix "bullet-time" effects. rolleyes.gif Anyone else sick of seeing this in about every movie now? Plus all we get are remakes or cash makers. How many GREAT movies can you think of from the last year?
The game industry is just like hollywood. Do we really need all the popular songs in our games? What happend to developers making their own music? I can rip songs anyways. My PS2 was the last time I used the music that came with a game. Do I really need the snoop dogg guest appearance? How about the hollywood actors doing voices? I am sure they wanted big bucks for it, we see how greedy they are when it comes to movies.

#15 jjjjlong

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 07:28 PM

eh where's my post??? Why did they delete it???






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