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Team Ninja Is Killing Me (beware Of Rant!)


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#1 dabigdilla

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:19 PM

first Ninja Gaiden, and now doa4. its as if they don't want me playing at all! i swear, i dunno how some of you do it. I tried for hours yesterday, hours, just to go thru the exercises. And for a while, i swear i woulda given up when i was stuck on one stupid move, one i did over and over for 30 minutes, watching the button presses on the screen as I go, matching the exercise......almost said the hell with it. plus, whytf do they not tell what the hell x (dot) y is, or when they have that arrow over the button that you're sposed to hold it down.

then finally, breakthru! so after about 2 hours i got thru the exercise. cool! of course, after 100 moves i kinda forgot, so i went thru it again. took me almost no time then. ok, thought i could get the hang of it. nope. ended up just button mashing. the moves i did do always, always got countered right in the middle of it! and here i am thinking it couldn't be done since in the sparring, i could never do it, only on the first move.

so, back to the sparring, back to the dull grind....but i learned how to break a combo. cool. tried the story mode again. hmm, not really helping. took me 30 min. of pleading with God to let me win that i finally beat the boss.

so, all in all i spent a good 4.5 hours to get thru 1/17 of the story mode.....on the easiest difficulty. now, i think its one thing to make a game hard, harder than usual....but with some kinda learning curve. at least give me a chance to see the entire game, and learn about the story, blah blah. i mean, ask me how much fun i had last night?

i dunno what it is, but i just cannot get thru this game. i feel like i should be taking a course on this game, or there must be something i'm missing.....lol, some genetic code....or maybe there's just a secret about the game that you get when you beat it but its forbidden to share it. fuck if i know, but i feel like i'm missing out.
*sigh*


#2 LowProfileWurm

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:28 PM

Believe me, you are not alone. I had to fight the tempation to chuck my controller at the ground when I spent 18 minutes trying to beat Alpha in Time Attack with the Spartan. A great deal of self control is necessary. I was actually audibly saying, "this isn't fun anymore. it's too frustrating."

FUCK was yelled many many times. But I must say the feeling of achievement is much greater with this game.

My only advice is to become EXTREMELY proficient with the reversal system and blocking.

#3 jaskerzada006

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE
My only advice is to become EXTREMELY proficient with the reversal system and blocking.


To get good with counter you have to know the combos. The best way to get to know the combos is to use them.

Edited by jaskerzada006, 04 January 2006 - 05:31 PM.


#4 Rubix42

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:32 PM

So true, team ninja is not for the faint of heart. I love that about them.

I spent 10 hours playing the story mode with each character. I kid you not, I spent 10 hours playing through 136 battles.

If you do the math, that means that on average, each fight took me 4.4 minutes.

10 hours*60 minutes=600 minutes / 136 battles=4.4 minutes per fight!!!

That's some ugly numbers right there.

No I've spent some time in sparring learning the timing on the counters, and learning the moves for each character, I can now go through time attack and earn a bronze.

Some people will be turned away by the Team Ninja hardcore gamer philosophy, I for one find their games to be the most replayable because I love playing a challenging game.

#5 jaskerzada006

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:36 PM

I've been playing Ninja Gaiden at least 1hr a week since it's release day.

#6 KAGE360

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:55 PM

well i say its about damn time!! every DoA game in the series has been so easy that i had to crank the diffaculty up to very hard on almost every one, i was so happy when i realized how hard this game is. itigaki has made it clear that he made ninja gaiden for the hardcore gamers in mind and refused to delute the game into requiring little skill top finish. i think hes taking a good move of making games more old school with their diffaculty. i never read a quote but i bet he had the same mentality for DoA4 in making it for the skilled gamers. also i think a part of it (as for me atleast) is just getting used to the revamped fighting system and restructured moves. i wish more developers would make games that pushed gamers. i understand your problem but there is alway practice, practice, practice.

QUOTE
Believe me, you are not alone. I had to fight the tempation to chuck my controller at the ground when I spent 18 minutes trying to beat Alpha in Time Attack with the Spartan


lol i spent almost an hour last night on time attack with the spartan and the majority of time was spent on fighting alpha, which is weird because the first time i faced alpha using the spartan i beat her on my second try. blink.gif

#7 miggidy

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:14 PM

It's called filtering out the weak from the strong.
Itagaki enjoys making it tough for the rest of us, but that's what I love about his games tongue.gif

We saw challenging gameplay disappear in the last two generations as video games became more mainstream with the introduction of the Playstation.
All of a sudden video games were no longer directed at hardcore gamers anymore.
But that changed with Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox thanx to Itagaki and Team Ninja!
Actually Ninja Gaiden wasn't as challenging as many 8 bit and 16 bit games but it sure was up there. I think that gamers in general were conditioned with easy @$$ gameplay over the past several years to the point that when a throw back action game like NG came out, they just weren't prepared for it.

Challenging gameplay is good, it keeps me coming back biggrin.gif


FYI, that freakin time attack mode in DOA 4 is pretty darn tough.
For the first time in years my phucking thumbs are sore! How cool is that? laugh.gif

Edited by miggidy, 04 January 2006 - 06:18 PM.


#8 jaskerzada006

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE
For the first time in years my phucking thumbs are sore! How cool is that?


Hey, are you sore from the dpad or playing with your analog stick?

(Couldn't resist.)

#9 twistedsymphony

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:27 PM

so dabigdilla you looking for someone to play against on XBL muhaha.gif

J/k, the learning curve on DOA is a tough one, There's a very wide gap between button masher and proficient player. First time players can have a lot of beginers luck but that will only get you so far. It's funny because when playing against someone I've never played against before I typically loose the first round, then win all the rest, it takes me the first round to learn how they play before I can beat them (really bad for me playing online with 1 round matches rotating against 8 different people rolleyes.gif )

Learning the reversals is key they easily do the most damage, I've been playing DOA since the first version hit the arcade so I'm fairly familiar with the timing of things, but sometimes I feel DOA4 is difficult even for the veterans of the series because a lot of the finer points of the gameplay have changed. They're similar enough that you think you can get away playing the old way but old habits die hard.

In that respect it puts old timers and newcomers on a level playing field but it's definitely a difficult game and it's definitely only mastered with laser guided precisions of timing and button combinations.

The boss character is super cheap, I've been playing through Time Attack with all the characters to unlock Tengu and no joke with Leon my time for that mode was 48minutes laugh.gif You think she's hard in Story mode try beating her 2 out of 3 wink.gif That was just a fluke (my next worst time is 15minutes) but damn that was a frustrating play through.

The key is to just keep pounding on her, counter her when she starts a combo (kicks combos are low counters punch combos are mid counters). The best is to do fast punch combos and if she teliports hold off immediately and readjust before starting again. Another technique is to do a run attack, distance yourself run in and attack. If she teliports while you're running attack immediately. Also watch her hands, if she makes any sudden movements at all while you're running in, attack immediately, she's moving because you're about to enter attack range, if you attack right then and there you'll get your hit in before she does.

Stay away from high punches or kicks, thats where she does the counter where she blasts your face off. She can do it as a throw too so don't be surprised if it still happens. Mid attacks are best because she can only teliport counter those.

Also if you're getting up from an attack and she's hovering just slightly above the ground slowly falling, if you hit her no matter what, she'll teliport behind you or to your side. So don't be tempted to just jump up and attack. You can ether time your attack to hit as soon as she touches ground or you can hit her with a quick attack forcing her to teleport where you expect and hit her with something stronger.

For general play the absolute best strategy in DOA is the juggle combo, Learn which movies pop your opponent up in the air then follow those up with a long easy combo to keep them up in the air. If you can learn a few moves that knock them up in the air and 1 long combo for each character you're golden. Opponents can't counter when they're in the air. Also if you do the same move more than twice expect the computer to counter it when you try it a 3rd time. So it's important to rotate which attacks you use, learn a few low, high, mid punch, mid kick attacks and mix it up to keep the computer guessing.

You can also use the computer's AI against it by doing the same thing twice in a row, then change it up
For instance a forward forward kick attack followed by the same forward forward kick attack. If you connected both time and try it a third the computer will counter, so do forward forward then THROW, the computer will be trying to counter and you'll get your throw in instead.

The Biggest thing to keep in mind is DOA is like a really complex game of Rock Paper Scissors, Attacks beat Throws, Throws beat counters and Counters beat Attacks. Thankfully counters and throws are the easiest to master and are essentially the same for everyone. Pay attention to when your opponent uses what type of moves and do it's superior. If you notice some guy always starts with an attack, you should start with a counter, if you notice they always counter your getup attack, getup and throw them after you've been knocked down. Human players especially get in habits of using certain moves in certain situations, being able to know what they're going to try to use your opponent will swear you have precognition.

Counters are the most valuable by far (I've beat people using nothing but counters before) They're the most powerful because they're the most difficult to execute, but luckily they're also the easiest to learn. They're even easier if you're familiar with the various moves the different characters can perform.

Like anything things get easier with practice. If you're trying to get through the game and find yourself button mashing the best thing to do is just stop and don't make any movies unless you make a conscientious decision to do so (pause and look at the command list and remember two or three moves, then try them in battle). I think you'll find matches become much less stressful and you'll start to see opening when you can attack. Try NOT to act on instinct, its difficult to do because the game is so fast paced but IMO it's the only way you can truly break button masher habits. Once you get in the hang of when to calmly use the right move and where you can let yourself start to act more in instinct.

Hope that was helpful... DOA is hard but don't give up!

#10 miggidy

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:28 PM

QUOTE(jaskerzada006 @ Jan 4 2006, 06:32 PM) View Post

Hey, are you sore from the dpad or playing with your analog stick?

(Couldn't resist.)



D-pad dude.
Even for a 3D fighter, d-pad is still the way to go!

Edited by miggidy, 04 January 2006 - 06:29 PM.


#11 twistedsymphony

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE(miggidy @ Jan 4 2006, 12:35 PM) View Post

D-pad dude.
Even for a 3D fighter, d-pad is still the way to go!


So very true... though it's a shame the Xbox360 D-Pads are such total junk sad.gif

#12 dabigdilla

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:51 PM

wow, thanks twisted! seriously....like, i'm about to print that post and use it as a manual when i get home tongue.gif
and props to those of you who can really play this game. i swear i am gonna get the hang of it even if it takes me to the next xbox to do it. but even still, seems kinda ridiculous for someone new to the game, who really likes it (not to mention the only fighting game out for 360), but has to spend the next few days, or even weeks with one char. in sparring and exercises just to learn enough to compete proficiently. unless i spent all day every day with this one game, it could literally take me a year before i even get Helena. geez.....that almost sounds depressing now. luckily i like the game.....i mean, i really like it or i would've given up f'sho

#13 KAGE360

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:55 PM

QUOTE(miggidy @ Jan 4 2006, 12:21 PM) View Post

It's called filtering out the weak from the strong.
Itagaki enjoys making it tough for the rest of us, but that's what I love about his games tongue.gif

We saw challenging gameplay disappear in the last two generations as video games became more mainstream with the introduction of the Playstation.
All of a sudden video games were no longer directed at hardcore gamers anymore.
But that changed with Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox thanx to Itagaki and Team Ninja!
Actually Ninja Gaiden wasn't as challenging as many 8 bit and 16 bit games but it sure was up there. I think that gamers in general were conditioned with easy @$$ gameplay over the past several years to the point that when a throw back action game like NG came out, they just weren't prepared for it.

Challenging gameplay is good, it keeps me coming back biggrin.gif
FYI, that freakin time attack mode in DOA 4 is pretty darn tough.
For the first time in years my phucking thumbs are sore! How cool is that? laugh.gif


i totally agree and thats what i was saying.

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jan 4 2006, 12:51 PM) View Post

So very true... though it's a shame the Xbox360 D-Pads are such total junk sad.gif


i use the D-pad and for the most part it does me good, i think they just need breaking in. my pad on the duke was stiff at first but when i got rid of my xbox it was loose and accurate, which was great for DoA.


dabigdilla i could always give you a good beating and maybe show you a thing or two. biggrin.gif i would like to fight anyone here actually, im not the best player but im good enough to have fun fighting.


#14 Erick

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:57 PM

QUOTE(dabigdilla @ Jan 4 2006, 06:58 PM) View Post

wow, thanks twisted! seriously....like, i'm about to print that post and use it as a manual when i get home tongue.gif
and props to those of you who can really play this game. i swear i am gonna get the hang of it even if it takes me to the next xbox to do it. but even still, seems kinda ridiculous for someone new to the game, who really likes it (not to mention the only fighting game out for 360), but has to spend the next few days, or even weeks with one char. in sparring and exercises just to learn enough to compete proficiently. unless i spent all day every day with this one game, it could literally take me a year before i even get Helena. geez.....that almost sounds depressing now. luckily i like the game.....i mean, i really like it or i would've given up f'sho

the game is easy on normal..

#15 twistedsymphony

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:59 PM

QUOTE(Erick @ Jan 4 2006, 01:04 PM) View Post

the game is easy on normal..


you obviously play alot, you haven't even had time to update your sig tongue.gif




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