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Hikaru N64 Emu News.


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#1 SSSSSmokey

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 08:57 PM

I just saw this!

http://www.emucamp.com/

#2 ndean27

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 09:15 PM

It sounds like he might be getting somewhere.

Hooray for Hikaru!

#3 Zero

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 09:22 PM

Sounds like the 12mb and under games are working so far beerchug.gif

#4 pilot

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 09:50 PM

If I can find his website, I'll do a better translation than google can spit out. beerchug.gif

#5 Mage

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 10:30 PM

Here's my quick translation of it, mind you I'm not too used to technical writing in Japanese, so there are some mistakes. Anyone who can translate better, go right ahead:
"
Using the Nintendo64 Emulator Daedalus, as a base, previously I was thinking the CPU emulator would be a faliure, since there is insufficient memory it appears. With 4X Anti-aliasing, 900KB of background textures, menus, sound effects, and fonts, about how much memory is being used I don't really know. U-VBA when using hardware anti-aliasing, also has out of bounds memory.
Super mario when ran on Windows Daedalus doesn't have the same problem running. *

-Program (1MB)
-Hardware Anti-alias(4.8MB) (1280x960x32bpp resolution)
-Background textures (0.9MB)
-Sound bank (0.2MB)
-Font Buffer (1.0MB)
-Frame buffer for front (1.0MB)
-Xbox system (5MB)

Maybe 32MB rom is the limit, however Daedalus when emulating N64's 4-8MB memory, it uses 40-50MB of memory, and because of this if anything is to be used above the xbox's 64MB memory running limit, I don't know how. But 8MB roms and 12MB roms keep running normally.

Right now because I'm testing the graphics plugin, I don't know how long it will take to port it.
"
* = sentence fragments complex, so translation could be wrong, 2nd part of the sentence was left out since it is unclear to me what he fully meant.

At least it makes far more sense than the automatic translated page. smile.gif

#6 MGSnake19

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 10:47 PM

well i think i'll be playing N64 game sonner than i expected it laugh.gif

#7 SSSSSmokey

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 11:00 PM

Great job Mage!

The only thing I understood was the editor saying he was glad it had sound! laugh.gif

#8 Aussie14

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 04:13 AM

Ok , I will start by saying that I dont know the foirst thing about porting Emu's to the XBOX, but maybe people are looking at it from the wrong angle. First QUestion. How come the xbox can run games with such graphics and magnitude of such games as MGS, Splinter Cell, etc. These games must use more then 64Mbs of RAM. But it cant run a little game like Basbeall Stars(Neo-Geo), Salamader (MAME) which is less than 1Mb. I just dont understand. Second INfo that might help someone. On the game spy hunter for Xbox, it lets you put in a code to play the old school Spy Hunter that use to be in the arcades. Maybe there is someway to use original games and add soemthing to them to run other games within them like the Spy Hunter game. As I said to start with I'm only trying to find some light on this project that I would love to see.

PS. I just watched "Indentity" and it was a really good movie.

#9 seph200x

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 04:33 AM

First of all, games like MGS, Splinter Cell, etc do not use more than 64MB of RAM. They are just programmed to make use of the Xbox's features only, whereas the PC version of Splinter Cell etc would need to work on a huge range of hardware configurations, not to mention the required hardware overhead of the operating system.

Sencondly, the reason Baseball Stars and Salamander may not work on Xbox would have more to do with compatibility issues rather than RAM size.

#10 Aussie14

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:01 AM

If the community is going to port EMU's why dont they make use of the Xbox's power and figure out how they do this???

#11 Drewus

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:31 AM

Aussie you cant just port one systems hardware over onto another systems hardware, it just doesn't work that way.
Firstly, the N64 hardware was created specifically for that machine, it had it's own GPU,CPU and everything. The software created for the machine was created to take advantage of the features which that hardware provided, so in a way everything created for the N64 was optimised to use the N64 hardware as best it could.

Now you have the Xbox, it has a completely different hardware configuration to the N64, it may be more powerful but everything created for the Xbox is optimised to use all of the Xbox's hardware features, just like the N64 and every other console.
So here you are trying to tell one machine (the Xbox) to completely change it's way of running in order to emulate (which is where the term came from) another machine's hardware. So now all of it's CPU cycles have to be re-programmed in order to behave like an N64, and it's graphics architecture need's to be completely changed in order to behave like an N64. All of this "re-programming" uses a hell of alot of resources, and it's all because the hardware wasn't designed to behave like another machine.
It's like trying to squeeze a styrophome cube into a circular hole, sure it'll fit once you eventually push it past it's limits, but in order to do it it's going to be twice as difficult and require alot of changing in order to accomplish the task. And even then your not guaranteed to fit it in.....you may have to cut a few parts off it, and make it more circular shaped to get it to work.
It's the same with PC's and emulation. PC's nowadays are a hell of alot more powerful than an N64, but you still need a pretty damn fast machine in order to emulate at full speed with all the emulated features on. And it all comes down to the fact that the PC's hardware isn't designed to run like a machine which has it's own hardware configuration.

Hopefully i cleared a few things up.
Cheers.

Edited by Drewus, 28 April 2003 - 05:33 AM.


#12 MGSnake19

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:40 AM

You did cleared a few things up Drewus blink.gif

#13 pakman21

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:03 AM

QUOTE (Aussie14 @ Apr 28 2003, 07:01 AM)
If the community is going to port EMU's why dont they make use of the Xbox's power and figure out how they do this???

let me guess, you are 14?

#14 CyborgGamer

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:16 AM

Nice Translation smile.gif

Well, this is where the hard drive in the xbox kicks in. I am sure they is some way to utilize some kind of swap space on the hard drive. I'm not a expert on this, but this is the first thing that poped in to my head.

#15 saunderez

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:17 AM

Ok I don't know if I'm missing the point here, an correct me if I am...But why bother porting Daedelus to Xbox. It wasn't a good emulator on PC it's definitely not gonna be a good emulator on Xbox. Not without a hell of a lot of work, which is probably beyond alot of the people that are trying to do stuff like simply port it over. Might I suggest instead Project64. Its compatibility and speed are heaps better than daedelus, and all it would require is some1 (possbily the people who wrote the windows plugins) to write/edit custom plugins for the Xbox. I'd do it myself if I had the know-how, I'm just not familiar enough with the DirectX calls that the Xbox uses to be able to pull it off...its just that there is source to Project64 out there, but the people who are porting want an easy way to get their name in lights with little work.

Also, if the 4x anti-aliasing is the problem, wouldn't a simpler solution be to turn it off. I'm pretty sure a stock-standard Nintendo 64 didn't run with 4x anti-aliasing, and it also didn't run at a stupidly high resolution like 1280 x 1024(???). Most N64 games ran at the most at 640x480 which was then formatted to fit your television standard. Sure they implemented edge antialising but is it really gonna matter if anti-aliasing isn't implemented at all. And lastly, in order for games larger than 32mb to run maybe a different strategy should be taken. As far as I can tell all emulators on the PC first load the entire rom into memory, then play it from there. Maybe there is a way to stream the rom from the HDD, flushing the memory when necessary to stream more of it. I dunno, but its worth looking into.

Anyway good job to Hikaru, if you can get daedelus working I praise you, however I believe its the wrong path to be taken.

Edited by saunderez, 28 April 2003 - 06:25 AM.





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