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#16 KAGE360

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 05:29 PM

the games should cost about the same, if not, maybe only $10 more the most. your mostly paying for the development of the title, not the disk its put on. publishers would be the one losing or making mone off of the games not sony (unless published by sony of course). there are some in the industry who believe that 3rd party companies really dont have to raise the price to make a profit and are only riding the assumption that next gen is soooo expensive. mark rein disputed the comments made by 3rd part companies like EA and activion who say they need 200+ teams and millions more to produce a next gen game. epic who are making UT2k7 AND GoW, did not raise their team by much. however i still see UT2k7 being priced higher then normal prices.

is the next gen more expensive? hell yeah, taking advantage of all of that new technology requires money. but were only paying more because everyone expected it and publishers are riding with the idea. i wouldnt worry too much, although its true that blue-ray will impact the price it has yet to be seen by how much.

also another factor to consider is this: with the possiblity of sony losing so much money off of each ps3, will they raise the royalty rates for 3rd party games? if not then they would have to sell twice as many games just to break even. all of that could play a part in the price of games.

i wouldnt be surprised to see them at $70 but no higher.

#17 calderra

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 17 2006, 05:36 PM) View Post

is the next gen more expensive? hell yeah, taking advantage of all of that new technology requires money. but were only paying more because everyone expected it and publishers are riding with the idea. i wouldnt worry too much, although its true that blue-ray will impact the price it has yet to be seen by how much.


(massively edited since I realzied I'm insane)

On further research:
-Normal new-release, big-name DVDs usually release for ~$20. Some places have specials and all that, but the actual suggested street price is usually around $20.
-All of the HD-DVD movies that I could find as having a price online were ~$20-$30. As in, $30 was the most expensive HD-DVD I've seen so far for a one-disc new release.
-The single cheapest BluRay I've seen so far has been $30, and the most expensive was $40.

So I'll revise my previous statement here to say it's more like:
DVD: $20
HD-DVD: $25
BluRay: $35

Or, looking at only the big-name, new-release titles
DVD: $20
HD-DVD: $30
BluRay: $40

If we try to apply this roughly to games, we get:

Last-gen DVD games: $49.95
Next-gen DVD games: $59.95 (the same price as an upgrade to HD-DVD?)
BluRay games: $69.95 (assuming the base price over regular DVDs holds)

If you remember the recent announcement that a single BD® disc costs $20, this is a pretty reasonable estimate. However, Xbox 360 games are NOT ON HD-DVD. That means that either MS are charging for that upgrade for no reason, or perhaps it means that the upgrade to the next-gen would have been more costly had they gone with HD-DVD:

Xbox 360 games on DVD: $59.95
If Xbox 360 games were on HD-DVD: $69.95
And then Sony's Blu-Ray games would be: $79.95

It's all theoretical, but depending on which set of assumptions you'll allow me, we can make some pretty good guesses as to what BluRay games will cost. And as I first guessed, the apparent range is ~$70-$80.

Edited by calderra, 19 April 2006 - 03:15 PM.


#18 DragoNs

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 04:37 PM

Sony will most likely price them as the same price that xbox 360 games cost, it would be stupid not too

#19 KAGE360

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 08:26 PM

QUOTE(calderra @ Apr 19 2006, 10:09 AM) View Post

(massively edited since I realzied I'm insane)

On further research:
-Normal new-release, big-name DVDs usually release for ~$20. Some places have specials and all that, but the actual suggested street price is usually around $20.
-All of the HD-DVD movies that I could find as having a price online were ~$20-$30. As in, $30 was the most expensive HD-DVD I've seen so far for a one-disc new release.
-The single cheapest BluRay I've seen so far has been $30, and the most expensive was $40.

So I'll revise my previous statement here to say it's more like:
DVD: $20
HD-DVD: $25
BluRay: $35

Or, looking at only the big-name, new-release titles
DVD: $20
HD-DVD: $30
BluRay: $40

If we try to apply this roughly to games, we get:

Last-gen DVD games: $49.95
Next-gen DVD games: $59.95 (the same price as an upgrade to HD-DVD?)
BluRay games: $69.95 (assuming the base price over regular DVDs holds)

If you remember the recent announcement that a single BD® disc costs $20, this is a pretty reasonable estimate. However, Xbox 360 games are NOT ON HD-DVD. That means that either MS are charging for that upgrade for no reason, or perhaps it means that the upgrade to the next-gen would have been more costly had they gone with HD-DVD:

Xbox 360 games on DVD: $59.95
If Xbox 360 games were on HD-DVD: $69.95
And then Sony's Blu-Ray games would be: $79.95

It's all theoretical, but depending on which set of assumptions you'll allow me, we can make some pretty good guesses as to what BluRay games will cost. And as I first guessed, the apparent range is ~$70-$80.


MS is the only publisher so far that has not embraced the $60 price tag. they have already announced that all of their regular edition games will retail at the usual $49 price tag. like i said before, its all down to money. while publishers could still make a profit charging the normal $49 rate, it would not be as big of a profit because of the higher costs to develop a next gen title. coupled with the fact that most people expected to pay more for next gen gaming already, the publishers have no reason not to charge $59. if you opened a store and could sell your products for $10 and make a profit but you knew that your customers were expecting your products to costs $20, would you really lose out on all that money by being honest? no you would over charge to $20 like it was originally expected and take advantage of the publics expectations. its all simple business.


QUOTE(DragoNs @ Apr 19 2006, 11:44 AM) View Post

Sony will most likely price them as the same price that xbox 360 games cost, it would be stupid not too


with their comments of 1080p games, a spring launch (even though knowing it couldnt be achieved) 120fps frame rates, duel screen displays, and 7 player split screen play; when has sony been anything but stupid? happy.gif

and like i pointed out before, if they do keep the same price as the 360 games then sony and the publishers wont be making as much of a profit because of not only the higher dev. cost to make a game on the ps3 but also the higher production cost to make blu-ray games. IMHO, sony is gambling with a dangerous hand with this coming generation. but youw wouldnt understand any of this because sony could do no wrong

Edited by KAGE360, 19 April 2006 - 08:28 PM.


#20 Deftech

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 19 2006, 03:33 PM) View Post

MS is the only publisher so far that has not embraced the $60 price tag. they have already announced that all of their regular edition games will retail at the usual $49 price tag. like i said before, its all down to money. while publishers could still make a profit charging the normal $49 rate, it would not be as big of a profit because of the higher costs to develop a next gen title. coupled with the fact that most people expected to pay more for next gen gaming already, the publishers have no reason not to charge $59. if you opened a store and could sell your products for $10 and make a profit but you knew that your customers were expecting your products to costs $20, would you really lose out on all that money by being honest? no you would over charge to $20 like it was originally expected and take advantage of the publics expectations. its all simple business.
with their comments of 1080p games, a spring launch (even though knowing it couldnt be achieved) 120fps frame rates, duel screen displays, and 7 player split screen play; when has sony been anything but stupid? happy.gif

and like i pointed out before, if they do keep the same price as the 360 games then sony and the publishers wont be making as much of a profit because of not only the higher dev. cost to make a game on the ps3 but also the higher production cost to make blu-ray games. IMHO, sony is gambling with a dangerous hand with this coming generation. but youw wouldnt understand any of this because sony could do no wrong


Not as stupid as the zombies that believe it all.


I bet Dragons doesnt know the minimum cost to get a ps3 game up and running. If he did, he might not make the comment he made tongue.gif

Would anyone like to fill him in? Ive got better things to do....




#21 KAGE360

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 05:59 PM

QUOTE(Deftech @ Apr 20 2006, 11:49 AM) View Post


Not as stupid as the zombies that believe it all.


I bet Dragons doesnt know the minimum cost to get a ps3 game up and running. If he did, he might not make the comment he made tongue.gif

Would anyone like to fill him in? Ive got better things to do....


isnt it something like 17k just for the dev kit alone? that is not even counting ANY other part of development, just to get the dev kits, if im wrong please correct. and for those who fail to believe that a dev kits for a ps3 would be high, sony just announced at the last GDC that they "lowered" the price to their PSP dev kits to $5,000! that much money to buy a dev kit for a fuggin handheld system, i would laugh if i knew how much sony originally charged for a PSP dev kits!!

#22 Deftech

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 20 2006, 01:06 PM) View Post

isnt it something like 17k just for the dev kit alone? that is not even counting ANY other part of development, just to get the dev kits, if im wrong please correct. and for those who fail to believe that a dev kits for a ps3 would be high, sony just announced at the last GDC that they "lowered" the price to their PSP dev kits to $5,000! that much money to buy a dev kit for a fuggin handheld system, i would laugh if i knew how much sony originally charged for a PSP dev kits!!


I think we are getting our lines crossed....

the # mentioned by Kutaragi and others was 17.5 Million, Not thousand.


QUOTE

“Kutaragi has said, ‘Please develop suitable software for PS3 - this software must not be of the same standard as PS2 software.’ Developing software for the PS3 from scratch will require an initial investment of at least 2 billion yen [US $17.6 million] [not including development costs]. There are not many software companies that can easily afford that kind of money.”

Edited by Deftech, 20 April 2006 - 06:25 PM.


#23 KAGE360

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 06:51 PM

QUOTE(Deftech @ Apr 20 2006, 01:32 PM) View Post

I think we are getting our lines crossed....

the # mentioned by Kutaragi and others was 17.5 Million, Not thousand.



blink.gif i totally forgot how insanely high it is. for comparisons sake i wish we knew how much a XDK costs

#24 calderra

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 10:00 PM

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 20 2006, 06:58 PM) View Post

blink.gif i totally forgot how insanely high it is. for comparisons sake i wish we knew how much a XDK costs


See: Xbox Live Arcade. Basic dev tools for the 360 are probably extremely (relatively) inexpensive. MS has noted that they plan on making Live Arcade development more and more accessible- suggesting that startup companies who just want to sell a $10 game shouldn't have any problem, assuming the product is quality.

#25 KAGE360

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE(calderra @ Apr 20 2006, 05:07 PM) View Post

See: Xbox Live Arcade. Basic dev tools for the 360 are probably extremely (relatively) inexpensive. MS has noted that they plan on making Live Arcade development more and more accessible- suggesting that startup companies who just want to sell a $10 game shouldn't have any problem, assuming the product is quality.


i understand that, but the difference between developing for XBLA and the 360 are like apples and oranges. one is considered generations old while the other is the actual next generation. basically i know its cheaper and easier to develop on the 360 but i would like some figures to actually how much cheaper compared to the ps3. although i do believe that no figures exist, atleast not on the internet. as far as how much easier, well they got one of the best looking 360 titles Gears of War running better and looking better on the 360 in only 2 weeks from having dev kits.

#26 Deftech

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 10:53 PM

Don't quote me on this but a few months back, someone in the industry speculated at #'s for the 360 and the inital cost was said to be around 4 to 6 million. Again, the person could have been anyone so who knows. Im mentioning it because thats the ONLY time Ive seen an amount posted on the net.

#27 DragoNs

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:15 PM

So what, you think because the price of the dev kits cost more they are going to price their games higher? No they wouldn't people wouldnt buy a game for $120, clearly i would because i have the money and i dont have anything better to do with it, but alot of people wouldn't- dont worry, when it comes out and your both wrong on everything youve said, ill be sure to laugh at you

Edited by DragoNs, 21 April 2006 - 04:16 PM.


#28 KAGE360

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE(DragoNs @ Apr 21 2006, 11:22 AM) View Post

So what, you think because the price of the dev kits cost more they are going to price their games higher? No they wouldn't people wouldnt buy a game for $120, clearly i would because i have the money and i dont have anything better to do with it, but alot of people wouldn't- dont worry, when it comes out and your both wrong on everything youve said, ill be sure to laugh at you


what would the "both of us" be wrong about for you to laugh? were not saying games themselves will cost more (even though that is the common opinion here) but were saying that developing for the ps3 costs A LOT more, which is a fact. and dev kits are part of a game budget, i dont know about you but i much rather all the money possible to be used for the actual game instead of the insanely high dev kits.

so again who should be the one who's laughing? us who acknowledge certain facts, or should we be laughing at someone like yourself who is actually willing to pay $120 for ANY game? rolleyes.gif

where you get this blind devotion is beyond me blink.gif for someone who has so much faith in sony, you definatly act like you have a lot to prove.

Edited by KAGE360, 21 April 2006 - 04:59 PM.


#29 DragoNs

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 05:08 PM

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 21 2006, 12:05 PM) View Post

what would the "both of us" be wrong about for you to laugh? were not saying games themselves will cost more (even though that is the common opinion here) but were saying that developing for the ps3 costs A LOT more, which is a fact. and dev kits are part of a game budget, i dont know about you but i much rather all the money possible to be used for the actual game instead of the insanely high dev kits.

so again who should be the one who's laughing? us who acknowledge certain facts, or should we be laughing at someone like yourself who is actually willing to pay $120 for ANY game? rolleyes.gif

where you get this blind devotion is beyond me blink.gif for someone who has so much faith in sony, you definatly act like you have a lot to prove.


Id laugh cause clearly you are trying to say they will cost more due to the high dev kit prices and the games wont be, And i say i WOULD pay that much money for a game BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT, clearly you cant so you just say garbage like this... I have much more faith in japanese designed products then american ones.

#30 KAGE360

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 05:22 PM

QUOTE(DragoNs @ Apr 21 2006, 12:15 PM) View Post

Id laugh cause clearly you are trying to say they will cost more due to the high dev kit prices and the games wont be, And i say i WOULD pay that much money for a game BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT, clearly you cant so you just say garbage like this... I have much more faith in japanese designed products then american ones.


i think your very confused. there are many reasons why a ps3 game MIGHT cost more but i dont think it will as I HAVE STATED BEFORE. we are making statements on a FACT that it will be more expensive to develop games on the ps3, something that the publishers would decide if they will pass that added cost to the consumer (which i dont think they will). we are not saying anything about the game cost, we are commenting on the DEVELOPMENT COST.

also go on and assume what you wish but i can afford $120 games, im just not so much of an idiot to do so. i use commen sense and logic when i have any hobby and $120 for a game is inexcusible. go ahead and make comments to prove even more of how much of a blind sheep you are but i refuse to.

i agree with japanese designs usually being superior to american products as you can see it in many products and explains why i refuse to buy anything but a japanese car. but none of that applies to game consoles. the ps2 was japanese and yet had the highest defect rate of the 3 last gen systems. and it has been proven and stated many times that MS has developed a truely balanced, powerful, and well-thought-out system and i believe nintendo will do the same as their systems always excel. if you think for a second that sony will have less problems with the ps3 then MS did with the 360 at launch then your a fool, especially from many developer comments stating that the system would have to be bigger then the models (you know the ones with no vent holes rolleyes.gif ) to fit all of the components inside.

again were not making assumptions (like some people) or stating untrue statistics, its all facts but some of us arent so blind to see them.




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