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Is Bluray Disc Another One Of Sony's Copyright Medias?


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#16 Kamasutra318

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jun 19 2006, 08:11 AM) View Post

What about SACD.. you know Sony's HD Audio format that was introduced just a couple of years ago and has completely flopped and pretty much disappeared. It's pretty obvious that consumers haven't changed. If I had to guess I'd say that they're even LESS informed then they were years ago.
That's exactly why SACD failed... you had to buy more expensive Sony Brand players that only worked with amps that had multi-channel analog pre-amp inputs The whole thing was confusing for the customer and WAY more expensive then what most wanted to spend. DVD Audio and it's cousin Dual-Disc are doing well because anyone with a DVD player can enjoy them and there are no special surround sound requirements. The quality wasn't as good but there also wasn't much difference in quality. Therefore the cost and complexity differences are what made the difference to consumers.

SACD is also Philips', who together introduced the CD as well. Consumers, as a whole, are definitely not less informed (since most were not too informed in the first place), and that's not why those formats are doing poorly. Aside from the obvious reason of very limited content (in quantity and popularity), it's clear that people, in general, don't care about their audio quality as much. MP3s are becoming even more popular than CDs now even though it is a lossy compression. This is likely because audio quality isn't as discernible and also you don't have to sit down and focus on the music to enjoy it (e.g. on-the-go listening) -- noticeability and importance. Most people can perceive visual differences much more receptively than audio. Let someone listen to a CD and then an SACD of the same music and they may or may not notice a real difference. Let someone watch an SD and HD version of a video clip and they'll almost certainly notice; whether they care is another issue.

Also, the point you brought up about the equipment needed is important too. Most people don't have HDTVs yet, but it's been estimated by some analysts that approximately 25% of American TVs will be HDTVs by the end of the year.

Current pricing is not as pivotal as you think since initial adopters will buy anything (see PS3 wink.gif). This "war" is in its infancy and if either format does take off on a large scale it will be a while from now, and by that time the hardware price gap will not be as nearly as large (if it exists at all).

QUOTE(Achtung @ Jun 19 2006, 10:00 AM) View Post

Are you serious?

Lets see, Memory sticks are more than double the price of any other mass Flash media type, they dont offer as large a capacity as the others do, they are much slower reading and writting. The only reason they sell at all is because you are FORCED to buy them because of sony.

Do you honnestly beleive if sony supported the other flash media types in their products anyone in there right mind would buy the memory stick? if you still have to think about it read above again. And the kicker is when Sony decieded to swtich to there new Memory stick duo format they didnt even allow support of there older memory sticks in those products. So any idiot that spend tons of cash on memory sticks had to buy them all over again if you wanted to use the new devices all thanks to Sony.

The variety of devices they're usable with?
No other company is stupid enough to support the memory stick, I can only think of one crappy Konica Minolta camera (which by the way has gone bankrupt) which accepted Memory sticks for the very reason of trying to get the people that had spend tons of money on the old memory sticks to buy the camera.

Yes, I am serious. Nice rant, but ultimately pointless since you haven't used any sales figures to dispute it. By variety I mostly meant that Sony makes a "variety" of devices in which they are usable unlike certain other formats whose uses are relatively slim. Additionally, PCs from OEMs are more often coming with Media Card Readers, which are capable of using them. Memory Stick is doing well and has lasted 8 years; get over it.

Edited by Kamasutra318, 19 June 2006 - 06:30 PM.


#17 tomeaine

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE(Sc4rfac3 @ Jun 19 2006, 05:42 PM) View Post

can i add md's on to that list

Hmmm..The big push for md as used for a consumer level wasnt the right direction.
I personally think Md's are really cool and they have lots of great applications as such in demoing music from a studio as well as djs.
Last I remember playing with them the qulaity was actually quite good.


#18 Serious Sam

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 02:08 AM

HD-DVD players are already being sold. I saw them at Walmart last night. Here's the link to them at Walmart;

CLICK HERE


QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jun 19 2006, 01:32 PM) View Post


Yes, I am serious. Nice rant, but ultimately pointless since you haven't used any sales figures to dispute it. By variety I mostly meant that Sony makes a "variety" of devices in which they are usable unlike certain other formats whose uses are relatively slim. Additionally, PCs from OEMs are more often coming with Media Card Readers, which are capable of using them. Memory Stick is doing well and has lasted 8 years; get over it.


The only reason people buy Sony mem sticks are because they have no choice with their equipment. They are forced to if they buy a Sony product that has a memory slot. But given the choice consumers will buy other forms of memory since they are cheaper and faster than the crappy Sony mem stick.

I seriously doubt that the Sony mem stick sells more than SD or CF media.

Example: Give the customer a choice for portable file storage purposes on their PC. What do you think they will buy? SD/CF media and reader or Sony memory stick and reader? It's pretty obvious what most will say wink.gif

Edited by Serious Sam, 20 June 2006 - 02:09 AM.


#19 Achtung

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jun 19 2006, 06:32 PM) View Post


Yes, I am serious. Nice rant, but ultimately pointless since you haven't used any sales figures to dispute it. By variety I mostly meant that Sony makes a "variety" of devices in which they are usable unlike certain other formats whose uses are relatively slim. Additionally, PCs from OEMs are more often coming with Media Card Readers, which are capable of using them. Memory Stick is doing well and has lasted 8 years; get over it.


Haven't used any sales figures to dispute? where the hell are your sales figures to prove its doing so well. How about you give me one reason why the memroy stick is such a viable option?

Like I and many have said, The only reason Sony has sold even 1 memory stick is because you are forced to buy them for your sony product (sounds like the same strategy for PS3 with bluray doesn't it?) . They have absolutely no other application.

SD and CF cards are the two standards among flash media, SD which came out like 4 years ago (more than 5 years after memory stick) is already a standeard among a wide range of products such as PDA's, Cell phones, Digital cameras, Mp3 players etc. Memory stick which like you said has been out for 8 still has absolutely no support other than sony products.

Added to the fact that the original Memory stick is dead and not even supported anymore by Sony! Now they have switched to Memory Stick Duo and no new product even accepts the 1st gen Memory stick. Pretty great strategy making your customers buy the same overpriced, inferior memory all over again.

How you can even defend Memory stick as a viable flash media and not a total rape of the consumer by sony just boggles my mind.

Edited by Achtung, 20 June 2006 - 02:49 PM.


#20 lostboyz

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:19 PM

the only thing blu-ray has over HD-DVD is its possible size. what is the max 200gb? what do you think that is going to cost when a 15gb one is $40. HD space will always be cheaper more reliable and safer. You can get external 2.5" HDs for almost $1 per GB. So space even in the mind of a PC owner is not worth it. Look at dual layers right now, twice the size, three times the price and half of the burns arent reliable.

#21 Kamasutra318

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE(Achtung @ Jun 20 2006, 09:46 AM) View Post

Haven't used any sales figures to dispute? where the hell are your sales figures to prove its doing so well. How about you give me one reason why the memroy stick is such a viable option?

Like I and many have said, The only reason Sony has sold even 1 memory stick is because you are forced to buy them for your sony product (sounds like the same strategy for PS3 with bluray doesn't it?) . They have absolutely no other application.

SD and CF cards are the two standards among flash media, SD which came out like 4 years ago (more than 5 years after memory stick) is already a standeard among a wide range of products such as PDA's, Cell phones, Digital cameras, Mp3 players etc. Memory stick which like you said has been out for 8 still has absolutely no support other than sony products.

Added to the fact that the original Memory stick is dead and not even supported anymore by Sony! Now they have switched to Memory Stick Duo and no new product even accepts the 1st gen Memory stick. Pretty great strategy making your customers buy the same overpriced, inferior memory all over again.

How you can even defend Memory stick as a viable flash media and not a total rape of the consumer by sony just boggles my mind.

I defend facts. I never said anything about it being a viable option, though that can easily be implied by the fact that it is. I have no obligation to prove it -- if I had to prove and provide sources for every fact I ever stated on forums it would be a waste of my time. Incidentally, the figures I've seen were on paper which I'm not allowed to take home. But if you want to disprove it then you have to provide a counterexample, as is the way of logical propositions.

Both of you went off on rants to express your own opinions about the format, which is fine, but why you both dragged me into it I'm unsure. If you wanted to dispute what I said then do so, but if not then please leave me out of it. I guess some people in this forum just want to find an outlet for their Sony-hating and anyone who seems to say anything good about something related to Sony is a perfect target. I guess I'm lucky I didn't say the PS2 is doing well (which it is) or I may have been gangraped. dry.gif

#22 lostboyz

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 07:40 PM

dont make yourself into a martyr, because your not, yea there are some fanboys, this is xbox-scene after all, but just because they get on you dosent mean everything you say is justified.

#23 Kamasutra318

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 07:54 PM

QUOTE(lostboyz @ Jun 20 2006, 02:47 PM) View Post

dont make yourself into a martyr, because your not, yea there are some fanboys, this is xbox-scene after all, but just because they get on you dosent mean everything you say is justified.

Okay, most of that makes little sense, but that doesn't seem to be all that uncommon here. I never made myself out to be a martyr of any kind, mostly because I don't want to suffer/die, and it would be something I'd rather want to avoid. All I've done is state facts; you may notice I rarely ever give opinions and when I do I'll clearly indicate it with something like "I think". Also, please take it upon yourself to point out anything I've said that was unjustified because I'm not afraid of criticism or to admit when I'm wrong.

Edited by Kamasutra318, 20 June 2006 - 07:58 PM.


#24 lostboyz

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 07:58 PM

Its not even the fact you are right or wrong you are just saying everyone else is wrong because you are a level headed person and everyone else that disagrees with you is a fanboy. This is too much like politics with republicans/democrats, and I hate politics.

Either way one big example is you sticking to how the memory stick is a huge success, even today. I think success in the way of only sony products using a sony media type is not a success on the media, its a success on the product that uses it. If they used any other media type I can tell you at least half if not more would buy a different type, because it is lousy in regards to flash-type media.

#25 Kamasutra318

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 08:49 PM

First, let me get something cleared up. I never said anyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy and actually the entire point in my last few posts was that no one was disagreeing with me -- they didn't say the products weren't selling well.

I said it was doing well, not a "huge success". When you're speaking about a consumer product, or in this case a group of products, "doing well" is generally measured in sales; usually success too. The reasons why people may buy it, technological inferiority, and all that stuff is irrelevant to it.

If you want to know my feelings on the matter, then I think all proprietary formats are bad -- hence why I initially used "surprisingly". But that doesn't mean they're lousy products. As far as technical specifications, Memory Stick Pro Duo (SanDisk's are the best) is comparable to today's SD and CF products. However, Memory Sticks do usually cost a bit more as a result of their propriety and if that's unaccpetable to some then so be it, but it doesn't appear to be stopping them from selling.

Hopefully, this will be the last thing I have to say on the subject. By the way, I hate politics too. biggrin.gif

#26 Achtung

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jun 20 2006, 07:22 PM) View Post

I defend facts. I never said anything about it being a viable option, though that can easily be implied by the fact that it is. I have no obligation to prove it -- if I had to prove and provide sources for every fact I ever stated on forums it would be a waste of my time. Incidentally, the figures I've seen were on paper which I'm not allowed to take home. But if you want to disprove it then you have to provide a counterexample, as is the way of logical propositions.

Both of you went off on rants to express your own opinions about the format, which is fine, but why you both dragged me into it I'm unsure. If you wanted to dispute what I said then do so, but if not then please leave me out of it. I guess some people in this forum just want to find an outlet for their Sony-hating and anyone who seems to say anything good about something related to Sony is a perfect target. I guess I'm lucky I didn't say the PS2 is doing well (which it is) or I may have been gangraped. dry.gif


That's great that you believe you can just make up facts and have no obligation to prove it. Unfortunately in the real world you do, and I have.

Just what fact are you defending?, you stated that memory stick is doing quite well in response to someone saying it was another failed sony format. In which I responded and gave clear examples of why it is totally inferior, how it is not supported as a unified flash media seeing how no other company accepts it, and due to that fact only sell at all because you are forced to buy it due to being the only flash media you can use with Sony products. I mean it doesn't get much simpler to understand, if no other company or product supports memory stick and the only media you can use with Sony products is memory stick, why do you think its selling? or still around at all?

But I guess that wasn't on the "piece or paper".

And How did I ever drag you into anything? all I have been doing is proving what you stated as fact as being totally false and explained why it was I could care less about you but what your saying is totally wrong.

I asked before and Ill ask again, give just one example the consumer would buy a Sony Memory stick other than to use with Sony products to prove why its a viable flash media and a success.

Because by what your saying the Gameboy game cartridge is a viable consumer storage media.

Edited by Achtung, 20 June 2006 - 09:34 PM.


#27 Kamasutra318

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 12:11 AM

Achtung, I say this very rarely so you should feel special. You're a moron. You have completely missed any point I've made.

I don't have any obligation to prove that it sells well because frankly you're not important. If you want to dispute it then by all means do, but since you still haven't and likely never will this exchanging of words is rather futile. When you claim someone is wrong you have to back it up. You also have a knack for putting words in my mouth. If my boss or professor asked me to write a report on certain technologies, which I have done, then I do cite sources and if I was so inclined I could probably find sales records from somewhere to incorporate.

I don't mind you giving possibilities of why it sells or doesn't and to be honest I agree with many, but if you want to call me a liar then back it up or keep it to yourself.

#28 STICKY_BUD

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 12:30 AM

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jun 20 2006, 04:18 PM) View Post

Achtung, I say this very rarely so you should feel special. You're a moron. You have completely missed any point I've made.

I don't have any obligation to prove that it sells well because frankly you're not important. If you want to dispute it then by all means do, but since you still haven't and likely never will this exchanging of words is rather futile. When you claim someone is wrong you have to back it up. You also have a knack for putting words in my mouth. If my boss or professor asked me to write a report on certain technologies, which I have done, then I do cite sources and if I was so inclined I could probably find sales records from somewhere to incorporate.

I don't mind you giving possibilities of why it sells or doesn't and to be honest I agree with many, but if you want to call me a liar then back it up or keep it to yourself.

^^ not be a liar, but definitely an idiot!



ms has been third, or worse, in market share of all flash media sales since back in 2003 or earlier(whenever it was that sd came along and took over first place of the maket share from cf).

Edited by STICKY_BUD, 21 June 2006 - 12:34 AM.


#29 Kamasutra318

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE(STICKY_BUD @ Jun 20 2006, 07:37 PM) View Post

^^ not be a liar, but definitely an idiot!
ms has been third, or worse, in market share of all flash media sales since back in 2003 or earlier(whenever it was that sd came along and took over first place of the maket share from cf).

Yes, I concede that I am an idiot. I did not realize that it had to sell more than two formats that it isn't directly competing with in order to sell well, but I greatly appreciate you pointing this out to me. I suppose I should have taken a relative percentage of its sales compared to them over time and realized that was a more accurate method of measure than seeing that stock was fluctuating at a healthy rate.

#30 Zapin

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:11 AM

Funny reading so far. Kamasutra318 took long enough to admit being an idiot. I mean to think that anybody would buy MemoryStick flash media if they actually had the option of buying the far superior, common and cheaper SD memory instead is just silly.




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