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Blue Ray Stuck With Mpeg2 Because Of Ps3?


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#31 Kira Yamoto

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 03:32 AM

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Aug 20 2006, 05:51 PM) View Post

its because of those words right there that prove how little you actually know. if you believe for a second that MGS4 is going to be 1080p or that they have "secrets" your sorely mistaken. also there are many who believe that sony built the ps3 based around its unproven technology rather then gaming. if sony really built the ps3 for gaming first and everything else second they would not have included the Cell chip and made developers lives even harder. the ps3, for sony, is their trojan horse to push their technology out in the industry and penetrate a market that would otherwise not warm up so fast to it. the ONLY thing in the ps3 built for gaming is the RSX chip and that baby was slapped in at the last minute


and your post proves to me how little you can actually read. the 1080p comment was regarding VIDEOS, in which it was said before that 1080p video was not possible on the PS3. Hence the NON-MPEG2 keyword. I said what I said because I believe they're able to come up with a custom codec of their own to display 1080p with more relaxed requirements, but also having better compression than current MPEG2 Bluray.

The whole "harder-to-develop" thing is only a ploy by MS "AMERICAN" dev's that are totally biased against Sony. I have not seen ONE Japanese developer step up and say that development was actually harder than what they had to go thru for PS2. And also couple the fact that even though PS2 development was tough in the beginning, in the end, the awesome games still came out, so your point about "harder to develop" is moot. Even 360's development isn't maxed out as none of the dev's are taking advanage of the so called 3 cpus.

#32 joerehall

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:07 AM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 20 2006, 07:39 PM) View Post

and your post proves to me how little you can actually read. the 1080p comment was regarding VIDEOS, in which it was said before that 1080p video was not possible on the PS3. Hence the NON-MPEG2 keyword. I said what I said because I believe they're able to come up with a custom codec of their own to display 1080p with more relaxed requirements, but also having better compression than current MPEG2 Bluray.

The whole "harder-to-develop" thing is only a ploy by MS "AMERICAN" dev's that are totally biased against Sony. I have not seen ONE Japanese developer step up and say that development was actually harder than what they had to go thru for PS2. And also couple the fact that even though PS2 development was tough in the beginning, in the end, the awesome games still came out, so your point about "harder to develop" is moot. Even 360's development isn't maxed out as none of the dev's are taking advanage of the so called 3 cpus.



Your arguing is pathetic, the entire time your trying to hold ground but your backpeddling trying to explain your self, if you explained yourself well enough and didnt state FICTION, not everyone here would disagree with you. All the stuff brought up about Sony and its Cell/1080p/BlueRay technology isn't a coincidence, and there isnt a perfectly legit reasoning behind why is plain out SUCKS. I could tell you to kick rocks and find a ps3fanboy board, but that would be immature, so please do me a favor and step back for a minute and look at all the technologies out there with a UNBIASED view.

If then you really thing blueray is still better, then so be it, but you sound like a little kid stating fanboy "facts" and when people disagree you do nothing but backpeddle

#33 Kira Yamoto

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:43 AM

QUOTE(joerehall @ Aug 21 2006, 05:14 AM) View Post

Your arguing is pathetic, the entire time your trying to hold ground but your backpeddling trying to explain your self, if you explained yourself well enough and didnt state FICTION, not everyone here would disagree with you. All the stuff brought up about Sony and its Cell/1080p/BlueRay technology isn't a coincidence, and there isnt a perfectly legit reasoning behind why is plain out SUCKS. I could tell you to kick rocks and find a ps3fanboy board, but that would be immature, so please do me a favor and step back for a minute and look at all the technologies out there with a UNBIASED view.

If then you really thing blueray is still better, then so be it, but you sound like a little kid stating fanboy "facts" and when people disagree you do nothing but backpeddle


lol, I buy all the consoles so fanboy? no I'm not. There was once a time when I was defending the hell out of the 360 before it was launched and now I'm doing it for PS3 because I know people are wrong. Wtf is wrong with that? I don't have to defend the Wii because fanboys are so extreme that you don't have to.

You would take perfect legit reasoning, even though the console isnt OUT YET? That you don't even have one yourself, nor have any games to justify saying that, "oh well due to perfectly legit reasoning, this console sucks". My view is unbiased enough considering I bought all the consoles, and I bought my favorite franchises on each.

I can't exactly call these technologies "bad" because I don't have them yet, and to make assumptions based on secondhand information is plain retarded and would make me look like a f***** moron. I won't accept people's opinion (but will take into account) because merely one's views could be subjective. There could be a slight difference in contrast, and color saturation, and a videophile reviewer could be turning that, into the biggest difference in the world. But other people wouldn't see it that way, know what I'm saying?

I never exactly said, bluray was better, but I know the potential it has, so I'm being the smarter person by waiting to see what companies have up their sleeve. Technically, bluray IS better. How you can't see that attests to your lack of research. Both format's support the same codec. But Blu-Ray is bigger in size and both cost the same. So logically Bluray > HDDVD, but that is not so, because HDDVD is making better use of their space. Technically better does not translate exactly to better overall.

I've been repeatedly saying, that Sony always has the capacity to blow HDDVD out of the water anytime they felt like it and it is true. Their players support VC-1 and H.264. But they choose not to do this because current players aren't fast enough to decode 1080p in those codecs, therefore they choose 1080p through Mpeg2. Nowhere in your posts, have you tried to dispute this, and all you do is call me a fanboy and backpedaller.

It seems what you want to hear from me. Is that Bluray is not superior to HDDVD, and that the PS3 has inferior technology compared to the 360. That's what you want to hear, and I'm not providing it. Thats why you're going off on me with all this backpedalling nonsense. It looks like you can't read, and defend other's posts by calling me a backpedaller, when I'm just restating, or rephrasing what I said, due to a lack of understanding. I know that my posts are hard to read sometimes, and they get lost and think a totally different thing other than what I tried to convey in the 1st place. Yes I've been criticized about that on another forum.

Edited by Kira Yamoto, 21 August 2006 - 09:46 AM.


#34 incognegro

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 04:59 PM

Yes ur debating skills suck tongue.gif

lol



#35 KAGE360

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:05 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 20 2006, 10:39 PM) View Post

and your post proves to me how little you can actually read. the 1080p comment was regarding VIDEOS, in which it was said before that 1080p video was not possible on the PS3. Hence the NON-MPEG2 keyword. I said what I said because I believe they're able to come up with a custom codec of their own to display 1080p with more relaxed requirements, but also having better compression than current MPEG2 Bluray.

The whole "harder-to-develop" thing is only a ploy by MS "AMERICAN" dev's that are totally biased against Sony. I have not seen ONE Japanese developer step up and say that development was actually harder than what they had to go thru for PS2. And also couple the fact that even though PS2 development was tough in the beginning, in the end, the awesome games still came out, so your point about "harder to develop" is moot. Even 360's development isn't maxed out as none of the dev's are taking advanage of the so called 3 cpus.


i read everything just fine and i was pointing to your twisted thinking that MGS4 will actually be rendered at 1080p. you point as us "AMERICAN" developers complaining, i have heard complaints from all over the globe. also IF you actually knew what the hell you were talking about instead of being too busy sniffing sony's ass you would understand and know that the Cell chip IS NOT the most ideal processor for gaming. EVEN SONY has admitted and stated that it was designed for streaming of video and audio <- that is entirely different then running the many gaming applications. you wont hear any developer say that its harder to develop for then the ps2 because its not, its easier but that does not mean that they built the system for gaming first and everything else second.

i can give a shit about how the ps3 does anything with blue ray movies, its a game system to me and a poorly designed one at that. if you dont think so then how is it that the 360 launched a year earlier and yet the two system are so close in power that its pointless to debate.

also i dont understand what you mean by "so called 3 cpus"??? WTF are you talking about? at least we know whats in the 360, sony has been rather vague lately with any clock rates with either the Cell or the RSX if you really pay attention so much

#36 Reaper527

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:03 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 20 2006, 10:39 PM) View Post

The whole "harder-to-develop" thing is only a ploy by MS "AMERICAN" dev's that are totally biased against Sony. I have not seen ONE Japanese developer step up and say that development was actually harder than what they had to go thru for PS2. And also couple the fact that even though PS2 development was tough in the beginning, in the end, the awesome games still came out, so your point about "harder to develop" is moot. Even 360's development isn't maxed out as none of the dev's are taking advanage of the so called 3 cpus.


actually, i have heard complaints about developing for the cell in general. this isn't a ps3 specific comment, i mean devs are complaining about the development difficulties for the cell chip in regular computers (although since ps3 isn't a game console according to its higher ups... jester.gif ). it is NOT ms propaganda that the ps3 is hard to dev for, and even though the 360 devs haven't used the system to its full potential, just because the tools are good doesn't mean they are going to exploit the systems full potential in the first year. i'm sure the ps3 will get some awesome games before the end of its life, however i think the fact thats its hard to dev for will reduce the number of awesome games.

#37 Kira Yamoto

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:58 PM

yet none of you have a playstation 3 unit in your home to tell me that it's not built for gaming. Knowing the specs, and producing something from the hardware are two different things.

Kage360's post in a nutshell: ps3 hardware sucks

man you don't know wtf you're talking about either so basically what you want to hear from me, is that I agree, and I refuse to, because as the intelligent consumer I am, I will wait to see what they produce rather than be an asshole just like everyone else and bash on a system before it's out.

Yeah, I was there when the 360 was released and before it was released too. It came under heavy fire, and just like PS3, I told people they were flat out wrong and they were. What makes this situation any different? The fact that the console costs more, and wanna be PC know it alls claim that this hardware won't produce stellar titles because it wasn't made for gaming, and based SOLEY on its specs alone?

Xbox fanboys have constantly said the system specs hurt the PS2 and its titles aren't any good b/c the system lacks power, but intelligent gamers will tell you that you're a moron, and that you're wrong, because PS2 has some awesome titles under its hood. PS3 will too, no doubt about that, Sony still has the majority JP developers under them, and I have no doubt that they'll fail.

QUOTE
i read everything just fine and i was pointing to your twisted thinking that MGS4 will actually be rendered at 1080p.


Yet in the same sentence I was talking about non-mpeg2 codecs, something that's relegated to video. You can't read face it. Come back to me when you've passed 9th grade reading kthx.

QUOTE
you point as us "AMERICAN" developers complaining, i have heard complaints from all over the globe.


Because it IS mostly American developers complaining, and not only that, they're on 360's camp. Thus, PROPAGANDA. Show me some Japanese and European complaints, from a credible source, from a company that's making a known PS3 title and I'll back off.

QUOTE
EVEN SONY has admitted and stated that it was designed for streaming of video and audio <- that is entirely different then running the many gaming applications


You know, when you wanna say "so and so said this" then you might want to link so you can back up your argument. Otherwise I'll just chalk it up to you making it up and no one really saw it that way. I don't want to see some random web blogger pc know it all say it, I want a comment from Sony's camp or else it's invalid.

QUOTE
i can give a shit about how the ps3 does anything with blue ray movies, its a game system to me and a poorly designed one at that. if you dont think so then how is it that the 360 launched a year earlier and yet the two system are so close in power that its pointless to debate.


You say it's a poorly designed system yet, you haven't seen anything come out of it just yet. It's IS safe to say, though, that you're talking out of your ass on this one. Come release date, prepare to eat your own words, as I said the same thing to 360 haters in which I was also right............




#38 Mojiba

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:30 PM

Man, calm down =) You're totally obsessed in defending something that till now don't even exists. You're creating too high expectations waiting for some kind of second come in november that we all know will not happen. Man, I'm really curious... why are you doing this? =)

#39 Kira Yamoto

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:52 AM

QUOTE(Mojiba @ Aug 21 2006, 10:37 PM) View Post

Man, calm down =) You're totally obsessed in defending something that till now don't even exists. You're creating too high expectations waiting for some kind of second come in november that we all know will not happen. Man, I'm really curious... why are you doing this? =)


because what they're saying is completely ridiculous. I don't think the expectations are too high, 1st launch are always going to create disappointments, but it'll prove itself over time, this, I know. Systems always deliver itself at one point or another. Yes, even gamecube, I made a good example of that on my games list thread. Which, ironically is a thread that defeats his whole argument.

If there's plenty of franchises and games that I'm looking forward to, this guy's post is absolute BS as I care that the system is marginally powerful than the 360 (note: the guy basing it off of paper specs alone). Which, by the way, 360 camp has been hyping that 360 was the more powerful machine in almost every interview by dev's and their VP alike. To this day, they still haven't proved it. They haven't even used their supposed, superior 3 CPU architecture to make superior games like they've been saying either.

What bugs me is that they have so little faith in the Playstation brand over years of proven history since 1995. Since then, they have provided countless hours of entertainment, and quality titles (despite early to mid console quality) Sony really has dominated the market since then, and to these haters, its like those years until 2006 didn't exist. The PS2 still continues to dominate, and still releasing quality games despite its old age. It still has about a year left in it, I'm still waiting for that God of War 2.....There's even people who think the Gamecube won the console race, and everyone knows that, that is false. But when it comes to admitting Sonys victory, they're always gonna dispute that, regardless of actual result. Sony won the battle between PS2, GC and Xbox. And they were 2nd out of the gate...........

So how is this generation gonna be any different? Despite the blu-ray drive, the cost, the developers are still making games for the system, and even more developers have jumped on development since the announcement of the PS3, even if some companies are waiting it out and/or have pulled back. Its not like they had any stellar titles anyways (I'm looking at you Atari and Ubisoft) After 10 years with the Playstation brand, you just KNOW that you're going to be getting some quality titles and to say that you're not, is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot for no reason. I'll be especially looking forward to the next game, made by the developers of Shadow of the Colossus. Who's gonna be the one who ends up not experiencing MGS4 over some bullshit complaints that are unproven? Not me. I'll have it as soon as it comes out.

Edited by Kira Yamoto, 22 August 2006 - 01:54 AM.


#40 Kira Yamoto

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 07:52 AM

http://ps3.ign.com/a...6/726747p1.html

harder to develop for? Ubisoft doesn't think so.

#41 Reaper527

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post

yet none of you have a playstation 3 unit in your home to tell me that it's not built for gaming. Knowing the specs, and producing something from the hardware are two different things.



my post was completely ignored sad.gif like i said, the cell chip is already out and available for PC's, its very possible to get a good idea of what the processor can do from those machines.

#42 incognegro

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 22 2006, 07:59 AM) View Post

http://ps3.ign.com/a...6/726747p1.html

harder to develop for? Ubisoft doesn't think so.



And there is no "propaganda" in this article, right? Of course not, it works in the favor of the ps3...lol

I mean this is the same company at E3 that said that sony is 'turning developers into factory workers' because of how hard it is to develop for the ps3. Which is quite contrary to that article but why would Ubisoft be two-faced like this?

So now, its alot easier to believe that statement because it works in favor of your argument.

Your idea of "propaganda" is funny to me. Why would devs want to see sony's demise and make up bad stuff about them? I mean its more money for them if sony succeeds.

Let me let you in on a little secret. IF a company is working on a game on a particular system and they are being interviewed to promote that game, they are NEVER gonna talk about bad about the system because that is counter-productive and just plain bad PR. They like to make you feel excited bout the product so they wouldn't bad mouth it or the system it is on cause that would be bad for the product also.

With that being said, do you think that link is credible? Especially since there is so much 'propaganda' (I augh everytime I have to type that) going on with devs. Who are we to believe? Those big bad american devs that wants a small japanese company like sony to fail or those super-gifted devs that look at the ps3 and say "O' piece of cake!"?

#43 Sc4rfac3

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE
What bugs me is that they have so little faith in the Playstation brand over years of proven history since 1995. Since then, they have provided countless hours of entertainment, and quality titles

Why does this matter to you? blink.gif Do you work for sony? Why do you feel the need to aggressively defend sony? i feel that sony has let me down, many a time i was a sony fan like your self but my ps2 broke
down 4 times and i got tired of sonys bs. i guess what i'm trying to say at the end of the day we are all gonna choose what we wanna choose.

#44 Reaper527

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 08:59 PM) View Post

What bugs me is that they have so little faith in the Playstation brand over years of proven history since 1995. Since then, they have provided countless hours of entertainment, and quality titles (despite early to mid console quality) Sony really has dominated the market since then, and to these haters, its like those years until 2006 didn't exist. The PS2 still continues to dominate, and still releasing quality games despite its old age. It still has about a year left in it, I'm still waiting for that God of War 2.....There's even people who think the Gamecube won the console race, and everyone knows that, that is false. But when it comes to admitting Sonys victory, they're always gonna dispute that, regardless of actual result. Sony won the battle between PS2, GC and Xbox. And they were 2nd out of the gate...........



i wouldn't say the ps2 was mid console quality, mid console POWER maybe, but quality i'd say very low. there are a ton of ps2's where the lasers stopped reading discs (i've seen it on numerous unmodded ps2's both locally in my city, and in the college dorms), and i've personally had a ps2 power supply fail. these systems are known for faling apart to the point i would even call the quality mid quality.

also, you mentioned ps2 being second out of the gate, i'm assuming your comparing it to dreamcast, but since you didn't mention the DC, it would be 1rst out of the gate compared with the systems you mentioned. also, most of the quality gaming hours you mention came from 3rd party companies (suikoden series,ddr,MGS series == konami, ff series,star ocean, kingdom hearts == squareenix, and most of the other good games where also 3rd party) who aren't enslaved by sony, nothing will stop them from jumping ship if they think they would make more mony on the wii or 360

#45 KAGE360

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:29 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post

yet none of you have a playstation 3 unit in your home to tell me that it's not built for gaming. Knowing the specs, and producing something from the hardware are two different things.

Kage360's post in a nutshell: ps3 hardware sucks

man you don't know wtf you're talking about either so basically what you want to hear from me, is that I agree, and I refuse to, because as the intelligent consumer I am, I will wait to see what they produce rather than be an asshole just like everyone else and bash on a system before it's out.

Yeah, I was there when the 360 was released and before it was released too. It came under heavy fire, and just like PS3, I told people they were flat out wrong and they were. What makes this situation any different? The fact that the console costs more, and wanna be PC know it alls claim that this hardware won't produce stellar titles because it wasn't made for gaming, and based SOLEY on its specs alone?

Xbox fanboys have constantly said the system specs hurt the PS2 and its titles aren't any good b/c the system lacks power, but intelligent gamers will tell you that you're a moron, and that you're wrong, because PS2 has some awesome titles under its hood. PS3 will too, no doubt about that, Sony still has the majority JP developers under them, and I have no doubt that they'll fail.


you really are an idiot you know that? where did i say the ps3 sucks? never said it was weak, or cant play games or wont have any good games. its very obvious and sad to how desperate you are to defend a system that has been proven to be over-hyped. even someone as blind as you has to admit that the ps3 has been a huge let-down compared to what it was presented to be at E305

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post

Yet in the same sentence I was talking about non-mpeg2 codecs, something that's relegated to video. You can't read face it. Come back to me when you've passed 9th grade reading kthx.


again ignore the part that i was refering to. you speak about my reading skills when i explained, in detail, that i was refering to your expectations of MGS4 running in 1080p. i know you were talking about non-mpeg2 codecs, that has nothing to do with my proof that you know nothing. my comment of you knowing nothing had to do with your expectations of MGS4 running at 1080p, see i said it twice now. read it carefully and maybe you can come up with a viable arguement because the ps3 will never be able to render next gen graphics at 1080p

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post

Because it IS mostly American developers complaining, and not only that, they're on 360's camp. Thus, PROPAGANDA. Show me some Japanese and European complaints, from a credible source, from a company that's making a known PS3 title and I'll back off.


QUOTE
Which system are you most excited to develop for?

360-37%
PS3-16%
Wii-32%

1.) Will more development time yield better games on the PS3?

- No. For some reason I am feeling like the Saturn all over again.


this is a poll from gameinformer questioning developers from all over the world. it was no secret that the saturn was a pain to develop on. it doesnt matter what i quote and link you will pull a blind's eye to it anyways. if i wasnt at work and limited to the sites i can view you would have no arguement what-so-ever


QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post

You know, when you wanna say "so and so said this" then you might want to link so you can back up your argument. Otherwise I'll just chalk it up to you making it up and no one really saw it that way. I don't want to see some random web blogger pc know it all say it, I want a comment from Sony's camp or else it's invalid.


when the Cell chip was first announced/discussed about the at the time president of sony (maybe Phill harrisman still) said in a keynote speech (i believe for the CES) that the Cell chip was designed for high definition multimedia streaming. <- this is entirely different then game code.

the fallowing are also facts about the Cell do the research and you will find the same results:

-The Cell's seven SPEs have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU.

-Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

-A lot of the game code consist of AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the SPEs are ill-suited to.

-designed more for serialized streaming math code, more common in video codecs and audio processing, the traditional domain of digital signal processing chips.

do some actual research and then you will see that the Cell chip is not the most ideal environment for game developers
QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Aug 21 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post

You say it's a poorly designed system yet, you haven't seen anything come out of it just yet. It's IS safe to say, though, that you're talking out of your ass on this one. Come release date, prepare to eat your own words, as I said the same thing to 360 haters in which I was also right............


eat my own words on what? just like the 360 we all know what to expect from the ps3 launch and nothing reaches up to sony's claims. you act like im calling the ps3 the jaguar of this generation when all i have been saying its an equal contendor to the 360 in performance and graphics which is true. i never said the ps3 was weak, its just not as powerful as sony would lead you to believe. if you would do some actual research rather then take everything sony says at face value then maybe you would have a better arguement.

QUOTE
Sony won the battle between PS2, GC and Xbox. And they were 2nd out of the gate


again proving how you know nothing. of the 3 you mentioned the ps2 was out the first by around 18 months by the time both competing systems were released. sony has won the battle on smart marketing and the deception to its fanbase, not to mention the fact that with them being first developers had little choice but to build tools and develop for the system or not make money for the beginning of the last generation of consoles.

Edited by KAGE360, 22 August 2006 - 09:38 PM.





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