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Insomniac: Why Resistance Needs 22 Gigs


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#16 incognegro

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 13 2006, 10:37 AM) View Post

I know it's been done before, I don't know about 'many' but I know that it has been. The issue is that not all companies take advantage of it, and even on PS3, only Resistance is reported to be doing that. I'm just saying that if more companies took advantage of it, and the fact that they can't really complain about space anymore since Resistance will prove that you can do an all in one package for all reigons.
Because it's a common question among gamers and critics alike. Look at this forum post and youll instantly see topics that relate in some way towards BluRay and/or it's capacity. We're talking about it RIGHT NOW. It's one of THE MOST criticized piece of hardware in the PS3 and I doubt that anybody would disagree with me on that.

Honestly, just even revealing this info is going too far, and I for one appreciate that he answered one of the most asked questions on boards everywhere.


I just think they are trying to make excuses.

#17 redwolf

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 12:38 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 13 2006, 10:37 AM) View Post

and the fact that they can't really complain about space anymore since Resistance will prove that you can do an all in one package for all reigons.

there are reason why we have region code. most obvious are (same as films etc.) are currency differences, why would anyone buy a UK game for 50 when they can order it from Asia, pay half the amount inc. delivery. plus get away paying government tax.

other reason that, it takes time to have all the languages in one, different tv format, which can cause delays world wide, plus each countries have to review and age rate the game when it get to licence. blah...blah.

#18 KAGE360

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE(NicoBech @ Sep 13 2006, 06:05 AM) View Post

Are the BD-ROM drive in PS3 able to read dual-layer or only single layer BD-discs?


that is something i have been wondering as well. they are taking diods from current blue-ray players (or what would have been blue-ray players) and using them for the ps3, but the first gen blue-ray players can not play dual layer disks (not that they exist). also when the ps2 was first launched it was not able to play dual layer DVDs so i wouldnt put this past sony.

back to the topic, there is no excuse for a game like this to take up this much room. its complete rubbish that they point the finger to detail of the levels. the game looks good, yes, but it does not look as good as CoD3, GoW, rainbowsix vegas, BiA, or many other titles. like many have said it before, its CoD2 with monsters and i see that. even though i think this is a huge marketing push, we dont know the whole story. maybe the ps3 was not built for compression like the 360 was and thus they are not using the same techniques which is a shame because compression helps game performance more then uncompressed data does. aslo we dont know how much of that space is taken up with rendered movies, much will be revealed at launch im sure.

as for stating these numbers in defense for sony's choice to include a blue-ray player in the ps3, why should the developer care? unless sony is handing over some money (which i believe to be the case) there is no reason for a developer to make such a huge case about the size of their game. touting that your game is over 20gbs will not convince gamers to buy your game and is not a way to promote your game especially to the average consumer who wouldnt know what their talking about. what does a developer have to gain from saying "our game is 22gigs, we need blue-ray, this cant be done on the 360's DVD9", nothing.

#19 Ickypoopy

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 02:29 PM

QUOTE(redwolf @ Sep 13 2006, 12:45 PM) View Post

there are reason why we have region code. most obvious are (same as films etc.) are currency differences, why would anyone buy a UK game for 50 when they can order it from Asia, pay half the amount inc. delivery. plus get away paying government tax.

other reason that, it takes time to have all the languages in one, different tv format, which can cause delays world wide, plus each countries have to review and age rate the game when it get to licence. blah...blah.

Actually, another reason for the region coding has to do with licensing. When you include 3rd-party licensed content in your game, they may offer different licenses for different parts of the world (possibly for legal, or more likely for money-grubbing reasons). For instance, the music industry is very bad about this. Games that offer music from major labels have to have region coding to satisfy the labels. I hate them.

#20 twistedsymphony

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 04:18 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 12 2006, 05:20 PM) View Post

This is what some, or most Xbox games did and I'm glad that they're doing this for PS3 as its gonna speed up the release date for our fellow European gamers. Heck, they might even get some games FIRST. Hopefully this trend will continue with other companies, so that we may never have to import again, or if we do import, we can play it in our language.
Currently games made by European companies almost always release in Europe first.

As for multi region discs speeding up the release date? NOPE. Think about it this way.. if the game was coded for Japan and it takes 3 months to add into the localization coding for the other regions (video formats, languages, etc)... the game might normally release in Japan in December then the US in March, then Europe and Aus in June, and the rest of world in September/October...

Now if they want to put all that info onto he same disc before releasing it at all it would mean that NO region would get the disc until September/October

It'd be like Comunism... everyone is the same... and thus everyone suffers the same as the lowest common denominator.

Also I want to clear something up... the game does not have over 40 levels... read it again, it says "over 40 'different large loaded areas'" A single level could contain any number of "large loaded areas" IIRC a single LEVEL of Splinter Cell:CT included close to 5 or 6 large loaded areas.

I'm not saying it will have a small number of levels but I'd seriously be surprised if the game had more then 20 levels between single and multi-player, even less if they use the same level for both.


#21 punge

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 05:54 PM

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 13 2006, 11:25 AM) View Post


Also I want to clear something up... the game does not have over 40 levels... read it again, it says "over 40 'different large loaded areas'" A single level could contain any number of "large loaded areas" IIRC a single LEVEL of Splinter Cell:CT included close to 5 or 6 large loaded areas.

I'm not saying it will have a small number of levels but I'd seriously be surprised if the game had more then 20 levels between single and multi-player, even less if they use the same level for both.


Reading comprehension at it's best. Some read that statement and think its going to have these crazy amount of levels and all but like you say, it oculd 5-6 or even 10 large loaded areas that only take up 300MB. It doesn't even say its 40 levels, but everyone blows it up to be that way. Thanks for pointing that out.

Edited by punge, 13 September 2006 - 05:55 PM.


#22 throwingks

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 06:35 PM

Help me with my math.

40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?

If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.

How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.

I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.

#23 nickthegreat

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 06:42 PM) View Post

Help me with my math.

40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?

If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.

How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.

I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.


Thank you - was trying to find the comment someone else made on this from when i originally read the article, but couldn't.

12 gigs - obviously it would be an impossibility to fit that +sound +code onto a dvd9 with a little bit of work. Although with cutscenes........... ohmy.gif

When it comes down to it - Ill believe the bluray arguement when a nextgen drive is REQUIRED for a PC game. Until then ill be happy playing my games of 'Crysis' quality. (im surprised insomniac needed 22gigs but crytek did not......)

This is pure bull.............. again.
The only worry i have is that it may be an incentive for devs to ignore the 360 - why bother trying to make the data fit?

Edited by nickthegreat, 13 September 2006 - 07:03 PM.


#24 KAGE360

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 01:42 PM) View Post

Help me with my math.

40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?

If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.

How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.

I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.


read the original quote and twisted post again. it's the levels and sub-levels that are around 300 megs, not each of the "large areas". so first you would have to find out how many large areas make up one level on average before multiplying that with 300 megs. regardless this would only mean that your total would be even smaller. again i believe that a lot of that space goes to rendered movies and sloppy code.

#25 twistedsymphony

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 01:42 PM) View Post

Help me with my math.

40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?

If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.

How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.

I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.


they're deliberately leaving out information

it's 300MB per level and they have 40 large areas

but they don't tell you how many large areas there are per level

you can't make a space estimate with the limited information they've provided...

As for Oblivion it's easily over 40, every city, every dungeon, every large building, and however many areas they divided the outside world into. Considering the outside world makes up a larger number of areas then all of the dungeons combine and there are well over 100 dungeons.... well you get the picture.

#26 nickthegreat

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 08:10 PM

In anycase, his point stands.

RE:my crytek point - how many dvd9's do you think this will be on? (not rhetorical)

Edited by nickthegreat, 13 September 2006 - 08:11 PM.


#27 Kira Yamoto

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE
that is something i have been wondering as well. they are taking diods from current blue-ray players (or what would have been blue-ray players) and using them for the ps3, but the first gen blue-ray players can not play dual layer disks (not that they exist). also when the ps2 was first launched it was not able to play dual layer DVDs so i wouldnt put this past sony.


Ahem, the players themselves should be capable of DL disks, but its the disks that they have a problem with, which they DON'T anymore. MGM and Fox are slated to come out with 50GB disk content of their own later this year. So yeah that whole yield crap is done and over with now. When those disks hit the market, a firmware update should be in order. Btw, PS2 didn't have online firmware updates. PS3 does so it should be able to adapt as much as the BDP or the XA-1 standalones.

QUOTE
Currently games made by European companies almost always release in Europe first.


As an Xbox gamer as well, I already knew this.

QUOTE
back to the topic, there is no excuse for a game like this to take up this much room.


How many bloody times do they have to explain it to you? You keep mentioning sloppy coding, yet, you're NOT a developer, yet the developer personnel himself, said that it's because they are fitting multi-reigon content in there. That basically means double of anything multimedia you fuckin idiot. DD5.1 tracks NTSC + PAL's multiple language tracks, as well as the double videos themselves take half, or more of the disk. It's not due to sloppy coding. There's absolutely nothing you can do, besides downsample the videos and audio as well as take out the extra reigon tracks to make it fit like a regular dvd9 game. (so its only for NTSC, only for PAL, yada yada) Let's not forget that they actually have planned extras in the game, so that might be more cut-scenes, demoes, and all that other junk.

Basically, until Resistance comes out, you don't know shit. You can call sloppy coding as much as you like even though they're trained professionals, you only sound like an idiot every time you say shit like that. I may not know whats inside the game, but I do know how big video and audio can get considering that I'm an expert coder. At least that much about what I said with video and audio I can be sure.

Edited by Kira Yamoto, 13 September 2006 - 08:20 PM.


#28 nickthegreat

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 08:21 PM

you can work out what the biggest part of the game will be - the '40 large areas' and see that it could fit on a dvd9: therefore the developers might not be being 'sloppy', but they are distorting the truth. they are implying the game NEEDS bluray. The GAME itself would be possible on dvd. yes you might have to cut out HD cutscenes in both pal and nstc format and all the other shit, but essentially the game can fit on dvd9 - you don't need to wait for resistance to come out, theyve said all they need to.

and they are essentially being sly motherfuckers by implying anything else.

Edited by nickthegreat, 13 September 2006 - 08:25 PM.


#29 KAGE360

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 08:36 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 01:42 PM) View Post

Help me with my math.

40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?

If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.

How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.

I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.


read the original quote and twisted post again. it's the levels and sub-levels that are around 300 megs, not each of the "large areas". so first you would have to find out how many large areas make up one level on average before multiplying that with 300 megs. regardless this would only mean that your total would be even smaller. again i believe that a lot of that space goes to rendered movies and sloppy code.

#30 incognegro

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:35 PM

kira, as much as I agree that the multi region thing is kinda cool, its hardly an excuse since the ACTUAL game can be done on a DVD9. Now they have yet to give a real good explanation for 22 gigs. If they are trying to tell us that "after compression" the GAME is 22 gigs or 40 levels with 300 megs per level (lets be honest, thats what they want u to believe thats why u had to read between the lines) then they must be taking us for fools. Game can be done on a dvd9. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out especially after the clues they gave us, what they are saying doesn't add up to more than what a dvd9 can handle (sans multi-region code).




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