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How Many Sucess In Fixing Your 360 But Installing New Thermal Paste


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#1 Tidus671

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:28 PM

hi
i was wondering on how many people have had the 0102 error or the rings of light. if so was this down to overheating. did you put ram heatsinks on the ram? if any other question regarding to overheating i shall research other forums or tell you of the knowledge i have.

Thank you for your time for reading this post.

#2 BCfosheezy

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE(Tidus671 @ Oct 10 2006, 09:35 AM) View Post
hi
i was wondering on how many people have had the 0102 error or the rings of light. if so was this down to overheating. did you put ram heatsinks on the ram? if any other question regarding to overheating i shall research other forums or tell you of the knowledge i have.

Thank you for your time for reading this post.




There was really no need to start a new thread. Try my recommendation from your other thread. After you remove the old foil and random insulators they put between the gpu and heatsink and clean it all up with isopropyl alcohol, apply a little bit of AS5 and then tighly secure the heatsink back down. Then increase your fan speed. I told you why in your other thread... now if you want to repair your console, try it.



#3 OomphH

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 06:39 PM

BCfosheezy, I think it may not always be as simple as you say.

I am pretty sure my box isn't overheating, in fact if it makes it past the first few minutes it will continue to work. If it fails, it does so at boot or during the first minutes after starting up.
This just doen't seems like a heat problem to me.

The heatsink on the GPU does not feel hot at all.

I tried as you recommend, removing foil, cleaning and so on. The first time I did it, it worked for two days, then back to 0102.
Then I tried again cleaning GPU and sink, no difference, unable to boot at all, just 0102 error. Ice cold heatsink.

Then having nothing to loose I tried the heat gun. The box has now worked for 6 days after the heat gun, but today it froze once, so I guess it'll soon stop completely again.

So Tidus671 I would say, try cleaning and so on as BCfosheezy says first, but if it doesn't work as it might very well not, then you might want to check if the heatsink feels hot at all when it freeze. If not, then I would not bother trying to cool it more. It can't get colder than room temperature anyway if you are using only fans and sinks to cool it.

Sadly it seems that the heat gun "fix" is only temporary, but if you have tried everything, then I say let the piece of s..t box burn muhaha.gif


#4 BCfosheezy

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 07:22 PM

QUOTE(OomphH @ Oct 10 2006, 12:46 PM) View Post
BCfosheezy, I think it may not always be as simple as you say.

I am pretty sure my box isn't overheating, in fact if it makes it past the first few minutes it will continue to work. If it fails, it does so at boot or during the first minutes after starting up.
This just doen't seems like a heat problem to me.

The heatsink on the GPU does not feel hot at all.

I tried as you recommend, removing foil, cleaning and so on. The first time I did it, it worked for two days, then back to 0102.
Then I tried again cleaning GPU and sink, no difference, unable to boot at all, just 0102 error. Ice cold heatsink.

Then having nothing to loose I tried the heat gun. The box has now worked for 6 days after the heat gun, but today it froze once, so I guess it'll soon stop completely again.

So Tidus671 I would say, try cleaning and so on as BCfosheezy says first, but if it doesn't work as it might very well not, then you might want to check if the heatsink feels hot at all when it freeze. If not, then I would not bother trying to cool it more. It can't get colder than room temperature anyway if you are using only fans and sinks to cool it.

Sadly it seems that the heat gun "fix" is only temporary, but if you have tried everything, then I say let the piece of s..t box burn muhaha.gif




I will agree there is a good chance I could be wrong, but all evidence I see... even yours tells me that the gpu is overheating. Let's take a look at the logic here. Heat gun, has a chance to effect EVERY component inside the console. It seems to make a difference. Taking off insulating material of gpu and heatsink and applying quality thermal paste... seems to make a difference and you only manipulated 1 component. That kind of narrows it down. Now, I don't want to offend you. It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to touch the gpu heatsink with it properly applied and it be "ice cold". It will be very warm at the very least if the heatsink is making adequate contact. It is a cutting edge chip and produces a LOT of heat. For it to be "Ice cold" in your box tells me that your chip is not transferring heat to the heatsink and therefore your clips are not tight or you have too much thermal paste.



Your chips reach their operating temperature within 5 seconds of inital power. That is during normal operation. If your chip is damaged or not being adequately cooled, it will show the same symptoms as yours.



Again, I'm not insisting that I am absolutely correct (but make no mistake, in my mind and after logically looking at it I am sure I am) but I AM saying it is highly possible.



#5 OomphH

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:29 PM

Chips might reach initial temperature after 5 seconds, but the GPU is not able to heat up the heatsink in 5 seconds.
As my box failed within a few seconds with the three red blinking lights, there was no chance it could heat up the heatsink.
That is why the heatsink is cold. And that is why speeding up the fans would make no difference.

Other boxes can of course have different problems than mine. But I'd say that if your box is failing within a few seconds after power-on then over heating to mee seems unlikely.


#6 BCfosheezy

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 04:07 AM

QUOTE(OomphH @ Oct 10 2006, 03:36 PM) View Post
Chips might reach initial temperature after 5 seconds, but the GPU is not able to heat up the heatsink in 5 seconds.
As my box failed within a few seconds with the three red blinking lights, there was no chance it could heat up the heatsink.
That is why the heatsink is cold. And that is why speeding up the fans would make no difference.

Other boxes can of course have different problems than mine. But I'd say that if your box is failing within a few seconds after power-on then over heating to mee seems unlikely.




It COULD transfer enough heat to keep it cool otherwise we'd all have dead chips as soon as we turn on our consoles THUS the reason I stated that you might have too much thermal grease or too little clip pressure. Just using a little logic smile.gif



#7 OomphH

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 05:28 AM

I tried to explain to you why the heatsink could not have been hot in 5 seconds and thus a cold heatsink after such short time was no indication of bad contact between GPU and sink or excessive amounts of thermal paste.
A cold heatsink also indicates that speeding up the fans as you prescribe will not help the problem.
It seems that you failed to understand this.

I can assure you that I did not repeatedly apply too much thermal paste and I did not repeatedly assemble the heatsink that incorrectly.

I tried several times. I tried tightening the screws. It is not the first time I put a cooler on a chip.

I did not do it so wrong that it could overheat in a few seconds.

If you still like to think so, feel free to do that, this discussion is ended on my part.



#8 Tidus671

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 08:03 AM

I do think ompagh does have a point because no way can the heatsink reached at that temperature

#9 BCfosheezy

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE(OomphH @ Oct 10 2006, 11:35 PM) View Post
I tried to explain to you why the heatsink could not have been hot in 5 seconds and thus a cold heatsink after such short time was no indication of bad contact between GPU and sink or excessive amounts of thermal paste.
A cold heatsink also indicates that speeding up the fans as you prescribe will not help the problem.
It seems that you failed to understand this.

I can assure you that I did not repeatedly apply too much thermal paste and I did not repeatedly assemble the heatsink that incorrectly.

I tried several times. I tried tightening the screws. It is not the first time I put a cooler on a chip.

I did not do it so wrong that it could overheat in a few seconds.

If you still like to think so, feel free to do that, this discussion is ended on my part.





I did not fail to understand anything. I did not say increasing the fan speed in your case would help you. I stated that chances are, your gpu is overheating. At the end of the day, we both want to fix your console. I'm sure there is not anyone that thinks they have done something wrong that makes their 360 malfunction. I'm sure nobody has ever put on thermal grease and as they assembled it thought "man I sure put too much grease on". I'm sure there's nobody that thinks as they turn their console on "I sure don't have enough clip pressure". No, of course not. I have got around 20 consoles with the same problems as yours. I have NEVER used the heat gun and I have fixed EVERY ONE OF THEM. Only 1 or 2 rare cases were a psu problem. I don't feel the need to argue with you about this, because it's your console and you can do what you want with it. I don't want any hard feelings because I know you're saying what you feel is correct. On the fan speed issue, for your xbox, yes you are correct.

(You don't have to end the discussion because I see no need to argue any further. We both seem to know what we are talking about and will eventually end up on the same page.)



Let me first ask you something. Did your console work intermittantly for a while? Sometimes it would boot a game and allow play and then lock up. Sometimes it would freeze on bootup. It would be totally random. Then one day it got worse?



That's the case with most people's systems. That is classic signs of overheating. Nobody will ever convince me that a ram chip's solder was jumping in and out of contact that often to cause that scenario. It was overheating but as all transistors do, once they have been too hot for too long they either die or operate much hotter than normal. This would mean that the normal ~5 seconds to reach operating temp would be shortened and also would peak much higher. In this case, you will not find a material that can conduct heat fast enough to allow that chip to operate.



#10 Tidus671

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 03:58 PM

Well my console screwed all together. It starts crashing on the dashboard then if im lucky it will get to the game for 5mins and lockup with checker style artifacts. I had a idea should i try putting another heatsink on top my gpu heatsink where there is 2 heatsinks to release the heat or do you think that grey paste on gpu is on top of the microchips should i get rid of it or would a blow dryer fixed it if i tried it for awhile.

#11 BCfosheezy

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE(Tidus671 @ Oct 11 2006, 10:05 AM) View Post
Well my console screwed all together. It starts crashing on the dashboard then if im lucky it will get to the game for 5mins and lockup with checker style artifacts. I had a idea should i try putting another heatsink on top my gpu heatsink where there is 2 heatsinks to release the heat or do you think that grey paste on gpu is on top of the microchips should i get rid of it or would a blow dryer fixed it if i tried it for awhile.




(So you don't have to read this terribly long post, Proper thermal grease, proper clip pressure and increased fan speed should cure you.)



Well you're a little different than the other guy. Your box actually makes it to the dash. The checkered patterns are DEFINITELY gpu issues. Something people may not realize, after you clean thoroughly and apply your AS5 lightly. Then put your heatsink on and press firmly and work it around against the die to work the excess away from the top, you must get the clips back on the bottom evenly. One cannot be bent more than another or have any variation from any other pins. It's the same concept as properly torquing the bolts holding an engine together. If one side is torqued more than another there will be a gap. You need heavy pressure contacting the chip to the sink, and it needs to be even. (Think of pressing down on a skillet while on the burner.) Once you have done all that, the fan speed CAN effect you. Since you're actually in the dash, the heatsink may not be warm to the touch yet, but something we do not realize, is that since air cooling can never reach a temp below ambient room temp, we have to provide as much airflow as possible to get as close to ambient room temp as we can. In this way it's never a bad idea to increase the fan speed. So it may not be warm to the touch, but we generally keep our room temperature around 70 degrees fahrenheit. Our body temp is 98.6 degrees fahrenheit. To feel the heatsink as "warm" it would need to be over 100 degrees. Therefore the touch test does not actually tell us much and while we still observe the heatsink as cool it may well have heated up 20 degrees. If you don't believe how fast these devices heat up and cool down, monitor a high end graphics card such as an nvidia. It has built in temp monitors. Run a 3d application and quickly alt-tab. It will show you a high number, but look at the graph. In the time it took you to alt-tab it cooled down about 10 degrees. Next close the 3d app altogether. It will have changed 20-50 degrees depending on chip and cooling solution.



#12 Tidus671

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:57 PM

i tried it.....................................didn't work i thjink it totally dead but i brought a new one and straight away im modding it with thermal paste cheers for the information though

#13 victor_s

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 04:09 AM

well i tryed using the heatgun trick and while my heatsinks were off i applyed some thermal paste to it, and it worked fine for a week or two but now its back to the 3red lights of death so i dunno... its back to beeing busted




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