388 replies to this topic

[DVADER]

Greetings frosty, good to see you still working on this.

Unfortunately, I've recently had to put my CRT projector in storage as I have no room to run it anymore, so I didn't have a chance to try out your new BIOS. My brother uses it however, and said the new patch still turns green when he starts "big ass emulator disk". All his other games are working. Think you could look into why it does that?

-DV

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Does the B.A.E.D disc overwrite the running BIOS in any way? Does it use a BFM BIOS on the disc?

Because Surreal XXX, MAME, etc. are fixed in this version of my VGA Patcher, but if the disc overwrites the running BIOS in any way, it might be breaking the VGA code... what emulators are actually on the disc?

Alternatively, can you tell me what files are in the root of the disc?

Also, i'm assuming all his previously 'green screen' games are working properly now with my VGA Patcher v0.8, other than B.A.E.D right?

Edited by FrostyTheSnowman, 21 May 2007 - 09:55 PM.

[Foe-hammer]

Hey. Nice to see Frosty got the patcher out so quickly! It was only a few hours ago that I sent him the code injection info. Great job!

One thing I thought I'd mention while I was at it is that although the readme suggests duel-booting BIOSes to get both VGA and composite, there's another solution for those who don't mind modifying their composite video cable. All you need to do is put the Xbox into SCART mode and the composite line will be driven with a perfect accurate-color video signal. Simply ground all three mode pins and your composite will work without needing to use a non-VGA BIOS. This was an ideal solution for my Xbox especially because I mounted VGA and composite ports right on the box (with a switch to change video modes).

Anyway, I'm glad I was able to help. Like Frosty said... VGA is a beautiful thing on the Xbox.

I wanted to extend my appreciation for the invaluable help you offered to the vga bios with helping Frosty injecting the code. Thank you.

[DMAUL]

Does the B.A.E.D disc overwrite the running BIOS in any way? Does it use a BFM BIOS on the disc?

Because Surreal XXX, MAME, etc. are fixed in this version of my VGA Patcher, but if the disc overwrites the running BIOS in any way, it might be breaking the VGA code... what emulators are actually on the disc?

Alternatively, can you tell me what files are in the root of the disc?

Also, i'm assuming all his previously 'green screen' games are working properly now with my VGA Patcher v0.8, other than B.A.E.D right?

I will get you a file list from BAED tonight. BAED emulates pretty everything that I can think of that is emulated on the xbox. 13 systems I believe, including SNES/NES.

The BAED menu is fine, but when you select a game and it launches the emulator, it goes green. I don't know what process it goes through to launch each emulator, I will take a look at it tonight.

The BAED is meant to run as physical media, but i have it on my xbox hard drive. Only file names need to be modified.

[PunMaster]

I wanted to extend my appreciation for the invaluable help you offered to the vga bios with helping Frosty injecting the code. Thank you.

No Problem.




Anyway, I finally got around to building that sync separator circuit and testing my Xbox with as many monitors as I could. My findings were interesting to say the least.

Results:
GEM LCD:
- - SOG compliant
- - Works with and without sync separator (no difference)
- - Looks beautiful at 480p
- - Works at 720p but display is very blurry
- - Works at 480i but is very blurry
- - Works at 1080i and looks quite nice but I get an "Out of Range" message overlaid on my video

IBM LCD:
- - SOG compliant
- - Works without sync separator but flickers intermittently
- - Works fine with sync separator
- - Looks beautiful at 480p

SONY LCD:
- - SOG compliant
- - Works with and without sync separator (no difference)
- - Looks beautiful at 480p
- - Works pretty well at 720p with just a minor overscan issue
- - Does not work at 480i

MAG CRT:
- - Not SOG compliant
- - Sync separator must be used, resistor value is irreverent but must be present
- - Does not work at 480p
- - Works at 720p but top 15% of screen is garbled and distorted
- - Does not work at 480i

NEC CRT:
- - Not SOG compliant
- - Sync separator must be used, resistor value is irreverent and can even be omitted completely
- - Works at 480p but screen is white tinted (turning down the brightness helps a little)
- - Works at 720p, white tint still exists but is less noticeable
- - Does not work at 480i

Any resolutions not listed have not been tested.

The two CRTs are the most interesting. The MAG only works at 720p. Know why? The NEC was also weird. Like I said above, the sync separator must be in place but will work without the resistor. Any ideas?

I've heard that some of the problems might be caused by the SOG signal still being in the green line even after the sync separator. Would it be possible with software to turn off SOG and put the sync on the composite line instead (doesn't SCART do something like that?). That way you could hook the sync separator to that and keep the green line "clean". Just an idea.

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Yeah, as for the 'white tint' issue, this is indeed caused by the VGA monitor still seeing the sync on the green line and thinking it is 'brightness' basically. The easiest way to fix this issue is to use an EL8101 sync-stripper in-line with the green wire before it goes to the VGA connector. (with the LM1881N diagram, the green wire still goes to the VGA connector before it even hits the LM1881N chip, which is why the monitor still sees the sync on the green line)

Also, as far as the other monitors go, some monitors can handle the VGA signal being output by the XBOX just fine, and some can't... the reason for this is because the XBOX does not output a 100% native VGA signal. (power levels, resolution, etc. are different)

Most new CRTs and LCDs however are usually able to be used with the XBOX just fine.

Also, in case anyone is wondering, here's the information on my personal LCD (for my XBOX):

Acer AL1916 19" LCD (4:3 aspect ratio, Non-SOG compliant)
XBOX v1.0
Conexant Encoder
LM1881N-based VGA Cable

480p = Perfect, no flaws whatsoever
720p = Perfect, no flaws whatsoever
1080i = Does not work, resolution is not supported

[DMAUL]

Here's the directory structure for BAED.

CODE

drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 20:17 Lynx
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 20:18 Msx
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 20:31 Msx2
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 20:34 Nes
-rw-r--r--   1 ftp      ftp       1392640 Feb 14 20:57 Default.xbe
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 20:57 ngp
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:00 sms
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:04 snes
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:22 tg16
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:31 wswan
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:33 A2600
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 22:46 A5200
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 22:51 Cdxmedia
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 22:51 Coleco
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 22:56 Genesis
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 23:08 Intel

The emulator directories all look something like this:

CODE

-rw-r--r--   1 ftp      ftp           833 Feb 14 21:04 xSnes9x.nfo
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:04 FreezeFile
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:04 ips
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:04 Media
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:04 Previews
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:04 Roms
drwxr-xr-x   1 ftp      ftp             0 Feb 14 21:22 Skins
-rw-r--r--   1 ftp      ftp        130329 Feb 14 21:22 changes.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 ftp      ftp            71 Feb 14 21:22 config.ini
-rw-r--r--   1 ftp      ftp       1892352 Feb 14 21:22 default.xbe
-rw-r--r--   1 ftp      ftp          5544 Feb 14 21:22 xSnes9x.html

I don't see anything extraordinary. emulator/default.xbe calls default.xbe. Screen turns green.

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Interesting. Have you tried running the emulators directly instead of using the root 'default.xbe' file?

[DMAUL]

If I run any of the emulators directly, they are green.

Also, my video doesn't appear to 'reset' when it happens. I mean, my projector doesn't sound like it's resyncing (which happens between the logo and the dash or when I launch a game). That could be just because the resolution doesn't change, though.

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Do you have your emulators set to use 480p?

If they are set to run in 480i, that is your problem. 480i is not correctly displayed with my VGA patchers, as 480i is not VGA compatible.

Only 480p, 720p, and 1080i will show up correctly, so double-check that your emulators are running in at least 480p.

[FrostyTheSnowman]

*Double Post*

DMAUL, I just personally tested the original B.A.E.D disc with an X2 5035 BIOS patched with VGA Patcher v0.8, and the emulators look perfect... what BIOS are you using, and are you 100% sure you are using VGA Patcher v0.8?

This is my 'test' setup:

1. v1.0 XBOX, Conexant Encoder

2. Duo X2 flashed with X2 5035 BIOS (patched with VGA Patcher v0.8)

3. Original B.A.E.D disc w/X-PORT emulators (Atari 2600, Atari 5200, SNES, NES, etc.)

I put in the disc, and launch it, and I see the emulator selection menu (in perfect VGA color), then when I select an emulator, the screen turns green for about 3 seconds (this is normal, it is the GPU resetting) and then the emulator loads up in perfect VGA color.

So, what is your setup? What BIOS are you using? Are you sure you are using VGA Patcher v0.8? (do not use VGA Patcher v0.7, it does not have the GPU reset code)

I have a feeling that you are using VGA Patcher v0.7 (which DOES have 'green screen' problems), when did you patch your BIOS? I released VGA Patcher v0.8 (this version fixes 'green screens') less than a week ago, so if it has been longer than that since you patched your BIOS, then you are using VGA Patcher v0.7...

Edited by FrostyTheSnowman, 25 May 2007 - 11:24 PM.

[PunMaster]

Yeah, as for the 'white tint' issue, this is indeed caused by the VGA monitor still seeing the sync on the green line and thinking it is 'brightness' basically. The easiest way to fix this issue is to use an EL8101 sync-stripper in-line with the green wire before it goes to the VGA connector. (with the LM1881N diagram, the green wire still goes to the VGA connector before it even hits the LM1881N chip, which is why the monitor still sees the sync on the green line)

Has this method ever actually worked for anyone? I don't think that's the problem. I've tried this circuit and it seems to do nothing (except maybe buffer my output). But my biggest conclusion came from the fact that the "white screen" problem still exists even with the green line completely disconnected (connected to the sync splitter but nothing else). My video looks purple but the brightness issue remains. And it's not my monitor. I've tried it with several displays and gotten the same result. One of them (the GEM if you want to take a look at my previous post) even worked with just SOG but has the "white screen" when used with the sync splitter. Does anyone have any more info?

I might be getting an oscilloscope over the summer (I've wanted one for a long time) and maybe then I could actually look at these signals. Has anyone already done this?

Thanks for all the help.

[PunMaster]

Update: I think I've figured something out. When I try it with just one color line connected, the "white screen" actually becomes a light shade of that respective color. So it seems that all three color signals just have incorrect voltages that result in their range being too small. This means that all colors will be shifted towards the lighter end of the spectrum. Creative use of op-amps on all three lines should be able to fix the problem. I'll have to play with it. Anything else anyone has to add would be appreciated.

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Well, i've heard that the EL8101 chip fixes the 'white tint' issue, but I can't personally confirm this, as the standard LM1881N-based VGA diagram has always just worked for me with my monitors.

But as far as the voltage levels go, that is very likely the problem. Component and VGA are dramatically different video standards, so I wouldn't be surprised if the voltage levels are also different. I've never paid any attention to the specifics of Component levels and VGA levels, i've always just wired up the LM1881N-based VGA diagram as the norm, and it has always worked for me.

Although, there are many monitors out there that do have 'white tint' issue, so if you could improve the current VGA diagrams, i'm sure many people would be very happy.

[alucard_xs]

It looks really cool but I'm still having some problems making the VGA cable, I don't really know where is the top and the bottom of the vga plug et the AV plug on the xbox ? so it's quite embarassing for soldering ...
If you've got a real picture (with 1 -> 6 and 1- 21 I believe), it would be nice

Thanks