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#1 TheShadowWanderer

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:21 PM

I was just curious as to if anyone else had found a way to solve the dialogue misshaps that happen when a mod is loaded that edits the dialogue in some way.

My basic theory is that for some reason the Morrowind esm replaces its entire dialoge 'tree' regarding a topic when a mod edits or adds a single conversation to the topic. I was just curious as I really want to install an "Unofficial Morrowind patch" that happens to change ALOT of the dialogue in the game.

I'm also attempting to take out all of the dialogue from the game, form an esp around that, and just merging the conversation changing esps into this, creating a "Conversation Fix" type of mod.

I've managed to rip out all of the Dialogue topics and conversations from the xbox esm, and I tried to just merge my changed conversations into this. I loaded it into Morrowind, and everything started up fine. However, it crashes about 5 seconds after speaking to someone, which I think is probably related to the size of my mod(10 mb).

I hope that ya'll have something out there, and if not I'll continue tweaking. I'm thinking about breaking up my mod into about 20 pieces, so that Morrowind only has to load half a meg at a time...

#2 Rwolf

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 07:54 PM

I've always wanted to fix that problem, but I never had any idea where to start, so I applaud you and hope you the best of luck! (maybe we can also find a way to convert the pc mod .wav files into xbox morrowind .wav files too sometime, even though the morrowind xbox mod community is dying... *sad*)

#3 Rwolf

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 07:29 PM

I think I got it! If you open up Morrowind Enchanted Editor and open Morrowind.esm you will the the dialog topics and you can click view responses and see all the info parts that link to that topic... so Im thinking if you can extract the main branches and then merge the new branches into them (copy the topics and infos of the esp you want and then go to the morrowind.esm and paste+merge instead of paste+replace) but there may be a big problem with this theory... when I copy topics, then the branch goes away and when you click show dialog responses nothing comes up... maybe theres another tool we can use... but im absolutely sure if we merge the topics of the new mod with the esm dialogs, then it will work as it should!!

Think about it, the Dialogs come in branches...

-example-
Morrowind.esm
Greeting0 -> Hello, How are you today!
|-> What do you want outlander?
|-> Its a bit chilly today... don't you think?

New ESP
Greeting0 -> I see you found my hideout, outlander... Now DIE!!

Well adding the new esp would completely do away with the original Greeting0, as if all the topics didnt exist, so it might as well be:

Morrowind.esm
Greeting0 -> I see you found my hideout, outlander... Now DIE!!

See? no more original responces, BUT if we can merge them it would look like this....

Morrowind.esm
Greeting0 -> Hello, How are you today!
|-> What do you want outlander?
|-> Its a bit chilly today... don't you think?
|-> I see you found my hideout, outlander... Now DIE!!

crap... i think i just put into detail something everyone may have know about... anywho, if you found any help with this and why we cant use mods with topics... there yah go! and if you have any theories on how we can merge the topics together, you would be most helpful! LETS GET THIS WORKIN PEOPLE!! ^-^

#4 Lesaras

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 02:40 AM

Rwolf, I'm not too good at the using the editors themselves to fix it, but I have noticed that loading the Xbox Morrowind.esm in the CS comes up with an Unknown INFO Structure. The thing I am good at is figuring out the format of files in hex, like I did with the map files (I'm hoping to learn how to make a program to do it in a few months.) If you could find someone who made of the alternate Morrowind editors to program for us, I could give them the Xbox INFO Structure and they could make a program just to edit the dialogue. I can't do it myself yet. This whole problem stems from the difference in Info Structure Formats between the PC and Xbox.

P.S. I had that problem with putting a topic in Greeting0. I could only talk to the person who had the topic and everyone else didn't even have a dialogue screen. The solution was to put the topic in Greeting5. It worked great and didn't screw up any Greeting5 topics.

P.S.S The Morrowind Xbox scene does seem to be dying, but until the 360 is capable of homebrew, I'm sticking to it. I'm glad someone else still cares about it.

P.S.S.S. Oh, there should be a couple of Xbox ACMPD sound converters floating around the internet. I'm planning to test it soon. Check out my theories in that Compatibility Pack.

Edited by Lesaras, 19 November 2006 - 02:47 AM.


#5 Rwolf

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 04:03 AM

ACMPD Sound Converter? Is that the wierd wav format xbox morrowind uses? I took a look at the hex on the wav files and theres not much difference exept for one value that I cant seem to change with any wav tools, and its the same value on all the wavs, i have never seen that value on any pc wavs... so i dunno... anyways, im not sure if a programmer would help us with the xbox dialog problem, but who knows, i guess putting "This program can now convert PC mods with dialog to be Xbox compatable" would sound kinda pretty! hehe... so ill send a few emails and stuff like that... hope you get somewhere with the converters!

btw, just so you dont have to go thru the problem I had with sound... the dir FX/ is the main morrowind dir on xbox... lets revive the xbox morrowind community!! w00t!

#6 Lesaras

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 07:31 PM

What was the address of the byte?

Have you tired changing it and using the sound file on the computer?

#7 Rwolf

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 08:06 PM

I dont remember the exact byte, but when i changed the normal wav files byte in a mod to that one and moved the folder in the Fx/ directory to morrowind main directory then i would hear something when the file played, though it was extremely distorted, almost like the file was broken, though it was the first time i actually heard a mod on the xbox from the pc actually attempt to play a wav file...

btw... morrowind on xbox can play .wma files from the explore folder and stuff like that, but it wont play them as sound effects (cant use .wma instead of .wav)...

EDIT: Though i do remember that the byte was in the very begining of the file (where it says how many bps and channels and stuff like that)

Edited by Rwolf, 19 November 2006 - 08:07 PM.


#8 Lesaras

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 03:05 AM

Well, my research shows that the Xbox has a slightly different format for almost anything. The remaining differences could be in just basic sound structure, such as bit rate, stereo, etc. I don't know much about sounds (Hey, I knew nothing about bitmap formats, yet I was able to make those images in my pack after mimicing it.) , but I'll take a look at the hex for one sound, with its Xbox and PC versions. They are pretty small, so it shouldn't be too hard.

It seems that Morrowind knows how to load the sound files based on where they are in the folders. (eg. Battle = wma, Vo = mp3, Fx = wav etc.) I found that in the help file. I put the exact specifications of the wma files, as I saw from Media Player, in the General Issues in the compatibility pack. That is easy enough to convert.

I'll look for a Xbox wav converter and tell you if I find one. I know it is somewhere. Until then, just keep trying hex changes.

Ever notice that the Xbox ESM has no index numbers on the journal entries, yet it still works? It must be a slightly different format.

I'll keep you updated.

P.S. I took a look at the Xbox BSA. It is entirely different from the PC. It will take more than just a rewrite of ghostwheel's BSA Archiver.

P.S.S. One more question. Is there a 24 bit tga or dds? I'm asking because I still can't extract the map cell images out of the map files.




#9 Rwolf

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 06:04 PM

Sorry, can't help you with the Tga/DDS problem, all my exp with thoes is batch resizing them to make them work with xbox (btw, dont use tga on the xbox, theyre huge! convert them to DDS)

And I doubt theres an xbox wav converter, ive looked and came up short... btw, im sure that theyre converted differently, because if it was converted the same as the pc, then the pc would have sounded something like the sound when it played with the hex digit replaced with the xbox one

oh!!! UnleashX can play the wav format that Morrowind uses! someone should look into this... well, I think its just us two on this part of the forum... lol!

And to the BSA thing... that makes sense, Ive tried unpacking the bsa and all the bsa programs fail at doing so...

(BTW, do you know how difficult it would be to get the Morrowind Graphics Extender working on xbox? (at least just the Fog Distance part))

Edited by Rwolf, 22 November 2006 - 06:12 PM.


#10 Rwolf

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 05:24 PM

Okey! Heres some notes I took down in a text document yesterday while studying the xbox wav format...

-------------------

The Hex Value in Xbox Morrowind .Wav Files that it can read is 69
The value is here

W A V E f m t 20 10 00 00 00 69 <-

PCs CAN play these files if you convert 69 to 11!

PC .wav files, the '69'/'11' is usually always '01'
9 / 11 - Coincedence? I think NOT! - lol.. JK! <^-^>

Is there a converter that changes this value?

Maybe we can find a converter to change 01 to 11 at least, THEN use a hex editor to change 11 to 69!! -GENIOUS!

What value is that anyways?

It seems to me that it tells the computer how the file should be played...
or 'how its been converted'

Will Xbox Morrowind play files with 11 instead of 69?

Xbox Wav Should be
4bit sample
72kbps
Mono
16khz
IMA ASPCM Format?

-----------------------------------

I hope this helps!

#11 Rwolf

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 07:15 PM

I was right! read this! http://ccrma.stanfor...cts/WaveFormat/

#12 ryanx1

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 09:46 AM

So, how much luck have you had with this? I spent a bit of time looking things up, and I have a few thoughts, presuming you haven't reached a breakthrough yet... To start with, is IMA ADPCM the format for that xbox wav? Or was that meant to be an S? After a little searching I came upon the fact that there are several programs able to compress into that format (should we be talking about IMA ADPCM), SoX being highly reccomended among them. As for the compression code of 11, I was unable to find any good source as to what that is, but if it read the way I think it did, this should get you that result. Failing that, I would like to know if the sound continues to work if you change the compression code in hex to "02". Good luck on your attempt.

#13 Rwolf

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 10:17 AM

just an update... the converter on xbox-scene dosent work... its just for unpacking music from certain games....

and ill try the program you requested, ryanx1, asap... and i got the file format from checking the wav files details... it said ASPCM

theres gotta be SOME program that converts a wav to different wav formats (the 69/11/01 thing)... ill keep lookin

#14 Rwolf

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 06:43 PM

Well I found out that were NOT looking for a converter! were looking for a compressor... any value other then 01(PCM) means that the file has been compressed... though... i cant find any wav compressors on the internet... maybe someone with a little more skill at searching could give it a try...

#15 ryanx1

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 11:21 PM

That's what I was talking about in my previous post...? I've found plenty of programs capable of compressing/decompressing wav files, but ASPCM is an obscure format, with little documentation available and no program I've seen able to imitate it. I'm sure they're out there, but no luck yet. I can't really test anything out anyway in my conditions. In any case, did you try to see if the wav file would still play when you changed the compression code (69 in the case of the wavs your using) 02?




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