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Microsoft: PS3 Linux Not Competitive Compared To XNA


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#1 Xbox-Scene

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 07:57 PM

Microsoft: PS3 Linux Not Competitive Compared To XNA
Posted by XanTium | December 14 13:57 EST

 
Gamasutra.com interviewed Dave Mitchell, Director of Marketing for Microsoft's Game Developer:


When asked about Sony's efforts to create a homebrew culture by allowing Linux to be installed freely on the PlayStation 3 (albeit without access to the RSX graphics chipset, among other restrictions), Mitchell commented: "On the one hand I've got to commend them for moving up their platform there, but we really don't view what Sony and PlayStation 3 and particularly the Linux solution that they are making available - we don't really view that as a competitive offering or trying to do something in the same vein."
He continued: "The fundamental difference here is not just about providing access to a platform, it's really about making an investment in something, and ensuring that people who will want to make games on your game console are successful in doing that... What we are focused on doing is providing great tools at a free or low price point that are going to enable consumers to be absolutely successful at creating games for both the Windows and the Xbox 360 platforms."

"..., once they want to take it past that threshold out to the end consumers, and like in this case, I make a game and I send it over to you to have you check out my game, and you're not a member of the Creators Club, I'd still love for you to be able to play it. That's absolutely the scenario that we want to support and start working on and enabling that in 2007."


Read More: gamasutra.com




#2 Landlocked

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 07:14 PM

I don't see Linux users embracing PS3 JUST because it can run Linux. They liked the idea with Xbox-1 because it was easy -- pretty much a standard i386 computer -- and because they could "show up" Gates. I am sure a *few* people did it for pirating, too. But that's just speculation. blink.gif

Besides, 6 years later, you can find a computer, albeit sans BR, for less than the cost of a new PS3 and run Linux just fine.

#3 quall

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 07:59 PM

Yah, but until MS allows users to play homebrew games without being a member of the creators club, I don't really see MS's method as a solution either.

Besides, the PS3 doesn't allow gfx hardware acceleration. Basically, anything 3d is out of the question. Sony's method is NOT a solution to creating games, simply because you cannot code anything 3d into a playable state.

#4 Trex666

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:10 PM

I think having linux on the PS3 is way better. Indeed game creation is out of the question because of the RSX but that doesnt stop you from making general applications and small games.
AFAIK the 360 is so limited in what it can do compared to ps3\linux. Eg networking
Hell people have got quake 3a and UT running on a ps3 (abit slow due to software openGL)

Edited by Trex666, 14 December 2006 - 08:18 PM.


#5 zX_Storm

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:30 PM

This kind of seems dumb. Of course M$ is going to talk up their own product. I still don't see a viable solution. I don't have an X360, but I sure as heck wouldn't give them money to play homebrew, especially a recurring payment. M$ just doesn't get it, and they won't ever. PS3 Linux is free.. and M$ isn't.. oh wait M$ is always trying to pinch people and take from them. Somehow stupid people always fall for it too *shrugs*. When it comes to homebrew, I'm looking for a free option.. thats the whole point of it. GG M$.

#6 quall

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:31 PM

I see what you're saying Trex, but applications are all it has. Like you said, quake 3 runs very slow, and it doesn't require many resources at all. Most 3d games, or any OpenGL games that want to use gfx acceleration, won't be able to. This limits you to basically 2d games, and frankly, the 2d libraries aren't any easier than using 3d libraries (or 3d libraries are easier to use).

The 360 hasn't got much, but its not like the PS3 has it all. Actually, the PS3 hasn't much at all in terms of game development.

Edited by quall, 14 December 2006 - 08:34 PM.


#7 C_Ripper

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Dec 14 2006, 07:37 PM) View Post

PS3 Linux is free.. and M$ isn't.. oh wait M$ is always trying to pinch people and take from them. Somehow stupid people always fall for it too *shrugs*. When it comes to homebrew, I'm looking for a free option.. thats the whole point of it. GG M$.


At the end he says that their intent is to have XNA games available for play by people who aren't members of the creator's club.

#8 tutu

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:40 PM

Why exactly can you not use the RSX? Due to lack of drivers?

#9 DMAddict

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:00 PM

QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Dec 14 2006, 11:37 AM) View Post

This kind of seems dumb. Of course M$ is going to talk up their own product. I still don't see a viable solution. I don't have an X360, but I sure as heck wouldn't give them money to play homebrew, especially a recurring payment. M$ just doesn't get it, and they won't ever. PS3 Linux is free.. and M$ isn't.. oh wait M$ is always trying to pinch people and take from them. Somehow stupid people always fall for it too *shrugs*. When it comes to homebrew, I'm looking for a free option.. thats the whole point of it. GG M$.


Couldn't agree with you more. There are two different communities here, Linux and XNA. M$ is just trying to get more people to embrace XNA so they can have more control of what is developed and distribute with that platform. They could care less about Linux because it doesn't bring them any added $'s. Open source will always rule.


#10 poop1

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:01 PM

they both suck , the consoles need hacked for any real productive homebrew .

#11 Itcouldbeyou

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE(tutu @ Dec 14 2006, 09:47 PM) View Post

Why exactly can you not use the RSX? Due to lack of drivers?

You cant use the RSX because Sony put hardware/software limitations on running "other os". They can send a screen to the RSX to display it, but all other capabilities are disabled.

I think the 360 is better for developing games from the ground up, but the PS3 has the advantage of using known libraries and a lot of code will run out of the box, thus enabling a lot of media center capabilities.
I guess that MS will loosen a lot of their restrictions they force on the 360 like networking (perhaps) and forced creators club, but I still don't see an XBMC coming, as all the codecs used are not written by the XBMC guys and will not be ported to C# that easily.

*edit*
Who is playing homebrew games on ther Xbox1 and what playable (native, not Xbox Linux) games are out there anyway? Sure there are emulators, but real games?

Edited by Itcouldbeyou, 14 December 2006 - 09:10 PM.


#12 Trex666

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:11 PM

QUOTE(quall @ Dec 14 2006, 07:38 PM) View Post

I see what you're saying Trex, but applications are all it has. Like you said, quake 3 runs very slow, and it doesn't require many resources at all. Most 3d games, or any OpenGL games that want to use gfx acceleration, won't be able to. This limits you to basically 2d games, and frankly, the 2d libraries aren't any easier than using 3d libraries (or 3d libraries are easier to use).

The 360 hasn't got much, but its not like the PS3 has it all. Actually, the PS3 hasn't much at all in terms of game development.


Agreed

QUOTE(tutu @ Dec 14 2006, 07:47 PM) View Post

Why exactly can you not use the RSX? Due to lack of drivers?


AFAIK Its due to a Hardware Abstraction Layer.
This was also used on the PS2 and has proved to be sucessful in blocking people from accessing certian parts of hardware

QUOTE(DMAddict @ Dec 14 2006, 08:07 PM) View Post

Couldn't agree with you more. There are two different communities here, Linux and XNA. M$ is just trying to get more people to embrace XNA so they can have more control of what is developed and distribute with that platform. They could care less about Linux because it doesn't bring them any added $'s. Open source will always rule.


Control is what they want. They have the power to block and allow access to the 360s resources. For example Ethernet is disabled.

QUOTE(poop1 @ Dec 14 2006, 08:08 PM) View Post

they both suck , the consoles need hacked for any real productive homebrew .


Or its manufactures just need better opensource directed brains. I love LUAplayer on the PSP

Edited by Trex666, 14 December 2006 - 09:16 PM.


#13 Opteron

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:23 PM

Like was already mentioned, payment will not be a requirement to play the made applications in the future. Networking will be something added to a higher end XNA from what I recall.

#14 gamehunter101

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:28 PM

i dont see xna as a youtube for games at all its not for the average or beginner programmer out there,its more for a group of people who want to make a game and make $ off of it,so ms is really knocking out the new people

#15 jizmo

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:23 PM

It would be completely different thing if XNA was free for non-developers, but having to pay for such a feature will turn away 95% of the potential users. Simple home-brew software, which takes some additional work to get running isn't really worth having to pay 1/3 of the x360's price. A year.

PS3 has Linux, which runs emulators. Plus it has a Flash player, for which mini-game developing is very easy.

I dig my x360, but on this front it loses to PS3 6-0, no matter what MS says.

Edited by jizmo, 14 December 2006 - 10:24 PM.





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