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HD-DVD AACS DRM Cracked?


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#16 appleguru

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:31 AM

QUOTE(silentbob343 @ Dec 27 2006, 10:32 PM) View Post

My understanding of AACS is that old cracked keys can be disabled at the player level via firmware:


This is true... however, it means that all previously released content can still be decrypted even with a 'banned' key... and it also means that they'd be effectively disabling the players that used the compramised key... not exactly a wise choice for good PR (unless new discs auto-updated the onboard key or something similar to change it)

#17 rasstar

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:37 AM

QUOTE(sgr215 @ Dec 28 2006, 04:19 AM) View Post

If I understand what you're asking correctly, you're saying whats the big deal about him using the Xbox360 HD-DVD to do it? If so, it's not really a big deal I just thought it fit nicely considering this is a Xbox forum.


No about backing up an HD movie. How much is an HD burner and who said they will even play in a HD player. So if all you can do is store 20 gigs per movie on your hard drive what will be the use.

Edited by rasstar, 28 December 2006 - 04:38 AM.


#18 luther349

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:39 AM

its drm so its illagle lawsuit will come. but it is a majer blow to all this drm shit.

#19 rasstar

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:42 AM

QUOTE(luther349 @ Dec 28 2006, 04:46 AM) View Post

its drm so its illagle lawsuit will come. but it is a majer blow to all this drm shit.


Maybe they should let everyone copy everything with no protection? Maybe the Xbox 360 games shoudl be able to be backed up without any kind of protection. Let's see how well the games will sell.

Edited by rasstar, 28 December 2006 - 04:43 AM.


#20 sgr215

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:42 AM

QUOTE(rasstar @ Dec 27 2006, 10:44 PM) View Post

No about backing up an HD movie. How much is an HD burner and who said they will even play in a HD player. So if all you can do is store 20 gigs per movie on your hard drive what will be the use.


Personally, I couldn't care less about backing up HD movies. I do, however, enjoy the fact this might make AACS useless. To learn why DRM sucks do a simple google search. wink.gif

Edited by sgr215, 28 December 2006 - 04:47 AM.


#21 rasstar

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:46 AM

QUOTE(sgr215 @ Dec 28 2006, 04:49 AM) View Post

Personally, I couldn't care less about backing up HD movies. I do, however, enjoy the fact this might make AACS useless. To learn why DRM sucks do a simply google search. wink.gif


I think DRM is needed because there is just too much pirating. Without any kind of protection what will happen to the industry. If the Xbox 360 had no protection and games could be backed up without any modification how many games would be released?

Edited by rasstar, 28 December 2006 - 04:57 AM.


#22 sgr215

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:00 AM

QUOTE(rasstar @ Dec 27 2006, 10:53 PM) View Post

I think DRM is needed in todays world. Without any kind of protection what will happen to the industry. If the Xbox 360 had no protection and games could be backed up without any modification how many games would be released?


That's a far too simplistic way of looking at it. If such protection schemes actually succeeded in stopping piracy I might see the point in implementing them but they never do.These protection schemes end up doing nothing to stop the ultimate goal, eliminating piracy, and only end up hurting the consumer. I won't go into the numerous, well documented examples of how DRM affects the consumer but like I stated earlier, google is your friend. smile.gif

#23 drleephd

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:10 AM

woot woot, I suppose. now I can fill up a 250gb hard drive with eight whole movies! instead of 100 DVD quality ones

Meh kinda, but this will be great in about 4 years when terabyte hard drives are $80 and I have a screen big enough to justify 1080p.... and by then I'll be doing it on xbmc360.... until that day comes I'll stick with cheap dvd+r's and old fashoned ripping

#24 HSDEMONZ

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:14 AM

Pirates will use this.

That's a given.

However.. those who'd want to back up their investment.. now can.

Bravo.

#25 Sanitarium

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:15 AM

I fully understand the need to protect they're product, but hampering it to the point where it effects the user who legally purchased it is bullshit. That's what I hate about DRM. They can't simply place no protection on it at all, but they must realize that no matter what they come up with it will be hacked. What needs to be done is come up with a away to protect the content so that it does not frustrate the poor sap who buys it.

Any protection is a success if it makes it far too complicated for the average joe to understand. How many people out there have enough of a clue to mod their 360's firmware even though all the info and tools are there for the taking? Probably around 1% of the population. So given that the other 99% are more or less oblivious to it, I'd say that was a success for M$.

AACS was going to be hacked no matter what, but it's there to prevent massive scale piracy. I imagine the vast majority of the herd doesn't even know how to backup a DVD at this point.

#26 HSDEMONZ

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:18 AM

where I come from.. even senior citizens know how to download from newsgroups, and make/burn VCD, SVCD, and DVD's.

Tool have made this far too simple.. and almost dummy proof.

with AACS cracked.. and tools to follow.. it won't be terribly difficult for anyone wanting to do this. $$$ cost of hardware will be the only stepping stone. Cost of media as well. but as we know. that drops fast.

#27 rasstar

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:21 AM

QUOTE(sgr215 @ Dec 28 2006, 05:07 AM) View Post

That's a far too simplistic way of looking at it. If such protection schemes actually succeeded in stopping piracy I might see the point in implementing them but they never do.These protection schemes end up doing nothing to stop the ultimate goal, eliminating piracy, and only end up hurting the consumer. I won't go into the numerous, well documented examples of how DRM affects the consumer but like I stated earlier, google is your friend. smile.gif


It's a good thing you don't work in software development. Would you work for free? I don't think so but developers should and everyone should be able to copy their work without any form of protection. A cd key is needed to activate software and that's DRM and PC games needs the oirginal Cd to play is also DRM. The xbox 360 games cannot be read on the PC and even that is DRM.

They should eliminate all these Digital Rights Managements because it hurts the consumers.

Edited by rasstar, 28 December 2006 - 05:26 AM.


#28 silentbob343

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:22 AM

QUOTE(HSDEMONZ @ Dec 28 2006, 12:25 AM) View Post

with AACS cracked.. and tools to follow.. it won't be terribly difficult for anyone wanting to do this. $$$ cost of hardware will be the only stepping stone. Cost of media as well. but as we know. that drops fast.

Interesting situation.
QUOTE
Blu-ray has 2 more layers of protection
1. BD+
2. Digital Watermarking or ROM-Mark

So pirates and most of the public will like HD-DVD as it's only protection is AACS, but studios will like BD as it still has 2 more layers, i.e. Fox not going with HD-DVD due to AACS being the only form of protection.
QUOTE
This is true... however, it means that all previously released content can still be decrypted even with a 'banned' key... and it also means that they'd be effectively disabling the players that used the compramised key... not exactly a wise choice for good PR (unless new discs auto-updated the onboard key or something similar to change it)

I understand and it's not ideal, but still an option for studios to discourage large scale piracy.

Edited by silentbob343, 28 December 2006 - 05:28 AM.


#29 rasstar

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:27 AM

QUOTE(Sanitarium @ Dec 28 2006, 05:22 AM) View Post

I fully understand the need to protect they're product, but hampering it to the point where it effects the user who legally purchased it is bullshit. That's what I hate about DRM. They can't simply place no protection on it at all, but they must realize that no matter what they come up with it will be hacked. What needs to be done is come up with a away to protect the content so that it does not frustrate the poor sap who buys it.

Any protection is a success if it makes it far too complicated for the average joe to understand. How many people out there have enough of a clue to mod their 360's firmware even though all the info and tools are there for the taking? Probably around 1% of the population. So given that the other 99% are more or less oblivious to it, I'd say that was a success for M$.

AACS was going to be hacked no matter what, but it's there to prevent massive scale piracy. I imagine the vast majority of the herd doesn't even know how to backup a DVD at this point.


Can you think of a way to seperate the two?

I can imagine PowerDVD will come under a lot of fire because of this. Looks like PowerDVD is what helped the hacker crack the code. Wasn't this just launched recently?

#30 drakethegreat

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 06:09 AM

People don't seem to fully understand the nature of piracy here. So lets say they do ban the keys and you can't use that DVD software to rip new movies. Ok well as people said you would still be able to steal the old ones via the banned software. Patching drive firmware has always been a possibility so simply updated the drive firmware will not solve the problem for the media companies. They can essentially only stop the software from decrypting old movies.

Ok before diving into the issue of new movies with the old ones, once someone gets a decrypted copy it will hit the topsites and/or some P2P community. So essentially once its cracked you will be able to download it from anywhere given enoguh time. Now if the keys are stored in RAM when the software loads up and decrypts the movie then that means the software developers will have to clever and completely redesign it each time a key is cracked. So right now PowerDVD is going to have to be completely redesigned if this is indeed real. Well they will then start releasing discs with new keys and new version of PowerDVD. So once agian remember the key has to exist for the player decrypted somewhere on the PC off the disc. So its possible to hack it again.

Now each time someone is able to find that key then its likely the authors of the decryption software will just have a new release with the new key and problem solved. So the media companies are really going to redesign software completely to thwart hackers each time?

Also consider even if they do start to disable the keys that have been compromised off these early discs, they are always running the risk of screwing standalone drives. Lets say a hacker gets the key off of a standalone toshiba player. What is the solution for the MPAA? Essentially kill millions of players across countries from playing new movies? Wow that would be an even bigger PR disaster then simply disabling old versions of PC software. Their fall back plan just isn't that great.




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