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Software Upscaler


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#1 helloworld555

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 05:26 AM

Hey, i was just thinking, what if there is an app for xbox to upscale games to a higher rez, kinda like the HDTV Player for PS2 but not as sh!t, yes some games support hi-def but most only 480P & would be great for those that way it can breathe new life into some games we like to replay like Metal Gear Solid 2 etc. hopefully this is possible without taking a hit to performence, as i didnt notice any on PS2.

Is this possible, a homebrew app that upscales games sitting on the hdd, or something that adds software filters from a menu before picking your game to run it for.

#2 Clockface

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:39 AM

I'd like to be proven wrong here, but I really don't think this is possible. For one thing, the XBox is single tasking (or rather it's OS and games are) machine, so there'd be neither free memory nor free CPU resources for any such software routines (and if such routines existed in hardware then the games would already make use of them). And a further problem would be that the enhanced image would require extra memory to store it (and it would require four times as much memory as the original screen, if the resolution was only 2x the original, since it's scaled up 2x vertically AND horizontally) as well as still needing the original memory area for the original, un-enhanced screen display. And remember, the XBox only has 64MB of RAM, which is shared between video and program RAM, and such a routine as you suggest would require five times as much RAM as the normal XBox video process uses, and that RAM would have to be taken from the program's area. Not at all practical.

Even if you had your XBox upgraded to 128MB, this wouldn't make your routine practical, as although the extra video memory would no longer be a problem, even if someone wrote such a routine, and even if you could get the right video connection to the XBox (I know nothing of that, maybe the standard connections would work?), you would still need a custom copy of each XBox game or program that you wanted to see in high res., as they would just use their own standard video routines. They would have to be rewritten to use the new, high res., routine(s) instead. And even then, the new routine(s) would have a heavy workload, either estimating from the standard screen data how the high res. display should look, or actually recalculating the new (high res.) screen display from the program/game itself. Either way, this would add a significant CPU overhead, which would slow down the game/program down. Even if this slowdown didn't bother you personally, it might well damage the internal timer of the game (not physically damage the XBox, of course, but it might cause the game to crash, or at least to behave wrongly).

You could upgrade the XBox's CPU, of course, if anyone still provides that service. But even if that didn't knock out compatability with unmodded games or programs, you'd still need modded versions of anything you wanted to run in high resolution.

So the answer, as far as I can see, is that it's probably possible, but it would need a lot of work, both on the high resolution software and each individual game or program, and also an XBox hardware upgrade might be necessary to make it practical. So it almost certainly won't happen. A pity, but of course if it was reasonably possible, then it would probably have happened by now.

Incidentally, I've heard it said that if the XBox had shipped with 128MB of memory (not a huge amount, even when the XBox came out) from the start, then the XBox would have been still a viable platform for new games, even today, since it's hardware is still very capable, and of course single tasking games can make full use of that standardised hardware. Not that Micro-soft would have wanted that, of course. They'd probably still have stopped pressing XBox discs, so as to make us all upgrade to the 360 mad.gif

#3 devlkore

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 07:28 PM

I don't have links, but I've seen patches for specific games to add support for HD resolutions. These patches, from what I've seen, are game and resolution specific.

Check the downloads section and maybe xboxsaves.com

Hope this helps.

#4 helloworld555

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE(devlkore @ May 27 2007, 05:04 AM) View Post

I don't have links, but I've seen patches for specific games to add support for HD resolutions. These patches, from what I've seen, are game and resolution specific.

Check the downloads section and maybe xboxsaves.com

Hope this helps.


I could not find these patches on here. Also xboxsaves.com is dead im afraid.

I dont see how the xbox cant do it, where as the PS2 software disc can, what is so different to create something exactly like this for the good old black beast?

The PS2 software kinda cheats to get its affect done but in 720p i can see a difference, sure its using the same textures but its ever so clearer.


#5 Clockface

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:24 PM

QUOTE(helloworld555 @ May 29 2007, 06:14 PM) View Post

I could not find these patches on here. Also xboxsaves.com is dead im afraid.

I dont see how the xbox cant do it, where as the PS2 software disc can, what is so different to create something exactly like this for the good old black beast?

The PS2 software kinda cheats to get its affect done but in 720p i can see a difference, sure its using the same textures but its ever so clearer.


But isn't that function built into the PS2's hardware, and also only for PS1 games? If it is built in, then all PS2 programs are already built with it in mind (even if they don't use it), and of course PS1 games don't make use of all of the PS2's hardware (although the emulation process might push the hardware at times, the emulation functions' authors would have allowed for the resources needed for the graphical enhancements of the PS1 games). With the XBox running XBos games, or with the PS2 running PS2 games, the games themselves potentially use all of the host systems resources (since they were written with those resources in mind), leaving nothing over to give to the graphical enhancements.

#6 helloworld555

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 03:04 AM

QUOTE(Clockface @ May 30 2007, 09:00 AM) View Post

But isn't that function built into the PS2's hardware, and also only for PS1 games? If it is built in, then all PS2 programs are already built with it in mind (even if they don't use it), and of course PS1 games don't make use of all of the PS2's hardware (although the emulation process might push the hardware at times, the emulation functions' authors would have allowed for the resources needed for the graphical enhancements of the PS1 games). With the XBox running XBos games, or with the PS2 running PS2 games, the games themselves potentially use all of the host systems resources (since they were written with those resources in mind), leaving nothing over to give to the graphical enhancements.


No, im not talking about that useless feature of the bios in PS2 systems.

Im talking about the software disc (HDTV-Player http://www.xploder.n...DTV-Player.htm)
for PS2 which what it does is you pick a rez (720P for eg.) it setup the screen (& you can center it & stuff as it dont stretch but some tvs let you do that, besides its not unviewable this way since gameboy emulation is better boardered too tongue.gif) & then asks you to swap discs with whatever game you like & away you go in the new rez.
Time splitters 3 future perfect (pal) i have tryed with it at 720P & it looks great, i cant stand it at plain 480i any more, sure there the same textures etc. but oh so much better (clearer,sharper,less jags). I would of showen pics but i dont have the PS2 anymore as the sh!tty dvd lens craped out.

Edited by helloworld555, 30 May 2007 - 03:05 AM.


#7 mike315

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:49 PM

http://forums.xbox-s...t...87&t=385226

QUOTE

480i -> 480i/p Autoselect

The original Value will most likely be 20h or 120h, this may be different if widescreen is supported (30h or 130h) but i doubt it.

480p -> 720p

There are several problems with attempting this.

1. 64mb RAM - Game crashes out with error message (Super Monkey Ball)
2. In-game menus are not displayed correctly (I-Ninja)
3. Clipping and other issues.
4. Problem games that use a 1/2 size render (Kung Fu Chaos)


#8 helloworld555

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 06:09 PM

That still dont make sence tho, how can the PS2 which has 32MB Ram cheat this effect but the xbox cant?

To me it seems like they are trying to force video modes by editing xbes is whats causing problems, where as the method the PS2 takes is it creates the rez of say 720p/1080i & places the 480i/p image in it, which makes the screen a little small, but you can stretch on most HDTV's, sure the stretching mite cause a little jagz & blurryness to reappear but will not look nearly as bad as the native PS2 image or in this case, xbox.




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