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Raid casualty comes forward to tell his story


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#211 ekruob

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE(JBmtk @ Aug 5 2007, 03:04 PM) View Post

The owner/employees if I can recall had to spend like 5 months in jail and pay a hefty fine.

Heres another story
http://www.lockergno...mod-chip-sales/

Since I assume the penalties have not been increased, FallsInc should get away with a slap on the wrist and a fine amounting to whatever they can prove he made out of the business.

If big-time modders and pirate-games sellers get 5 months, it would be unfair to impose anywhere near the same penalty onto FallsInc.


And for those above that are referring to what FallsInc did as a 'felony', then I'm sorry but you need an English lesson:

fel·o·ny
n.
1. One of several grave crimes, such as murder, rape, or burglary, punishable by a more stringent sentence than that given for a misdemeanor.
2. Any of several crimes in early English law that were punishable by forfeiture of land or goods and by possible loss of life or a bodily part.


What FallsInc. did, despite what Sony may propagandize, is classified by law as a 'misdemeanor'.

Edited by ekruob, 05 August 2007 - 07:22 AM.


#212 stopit33

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 12:44 PM

But don't worry mom (stopit33), I own over %90 of N64 games and all of my orignal xbox games and movie dvds, but I don't need to prove anything to you (stopit33) any further. If you would like, I can take a picture of all of my crap with a little ripped out piece of paper with my name on it just so you can sleep better at home, tucked in in your bed which is of course surrounded by all of your original casing of movies/games/music.
[/quote]


its good to know that every one who uses XBMC (witch is an illegal program) uses it to stream there DVDs pleas tell me how you get past the copy protection on your DVDs so you can put them on your pc? I think that's illegal too?

#213 Chancer

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 01:11 PM

QUOTE
and chancer you are correct. but the fact that you say that only pirates should be prosecuted, tells me that part of you wish the xbox had legal homebrew. Hell, im pretty sure even though you moved on to other things you probably stayed with the xbox for a while to see what it could do

Oh I still have multiple modded Xbox consoles running various dashboards and apps. i know backwards way round what they can do but what i am saying is that was the interesting part of it all for me. It is a shame that this little avenue could be closed off because of people modding merely to pirate games, but I have to say i believe that is the major reason, but accept that not everyone does this. The people that do not are being punished for the majority that do. It's not fair but it happens.

#214 JohnnyVegas

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 02:49 PM

Bummer. That's a saaaaad story...
Anybody here with a sad story raise your hand... yeah. sleeping.gif

Will a judge even go into this with you??? Nope. Not worth it IMHO. He will try and get rid of you as fast as can with some small time piracy crap they found in your bedroom and move along.

It too complicated to get into.

Don't drop the soap.

#215 stopit33

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 02:51 PM

QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Aug 5 2007, 03:25 PM) View Post

Bummer. That's a saaaaad story...
Anybody here with a sad story raise your hand... yeah. sleeping.gif

Will a judge even go into this with you??? Nope. Not worth it IMHO. He will try and get rid of you as fast as can with some small time piracy crap they found in your bedroom and move along.

It too complicated to get into.

Don't drop the soap.


rofl that is so funy laugh.gif

Edited by stopit33, 05 August 2007 - 02:52 PM.


#216 halofun121

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 06:33 PM

If Gates and Miyamoto were smart they'd let this shit go. But they have to make a big stink about it, it gets all over the news, and it garners publicity, enticing more people to look into it.

We can freaking build computers, mod cars, but this isn't illegal. How is it different? If anything, you probably have more pirates on the computer downloading music and burning discs. You probably have more people smuggling drugs in a car.

Yet it's funny. Mexicans cross the border every day, and the government is providing illegals with services that should only be held by citizens. What the hell is going on here? I don't condone illegal activity by any means, but I just love it when the government breaks their own laws....

#217 beal209

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:02 PM

This is why i stopped modding other peoples consoles its to risky. I had some on another site that I had never meet ask me to email Him a hacked bios for install on his chip because he didnt know how to use xbtool. I told him no then I stopped going to that website

Edited by beal209, 05 August 2007 - 09:03 PM.


#218 mrpeach

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 05:31 PM) View Post


P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)


Strange, dictionary.com lists both Houghton Mifflin and Random House dictionaries showing the word realist.

Speak not of that which you have no knowledge of.

#219 pirichios

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 06:52 AM

QUOTE(mrpeach @ Aug 5 2007, 10:42 PM) View Post

Strange, dictionary.com lists both Houghton Mifflin and Random House dictionaries showing the word realist.

Speak not of that which you have no knowledge of.

i stand humble and corrected. I also stand flatered. someone registered on the forums just to correct a mistake i made. I should feel special. biggrin.gif
stopit33, xbmc isnt only for streaming videos. it can and will upscale your dvd's up to hd resolutions(yes your real original ones) it would be nice if you were a little more assertive and a little bit less dogmatic regarding other people's views. As for myself i do understand where you are coming from regarding the legalities of it as obviously we both know what they are regarding the software. what i argue is that homebrew on a console should be allowed. everytime you say anybody that has a modded console is a pirate, you are giving a stereotype. I feel it is an insult very close to racial slur in some aspects. as chancer said there are some people who love homebrew and they should not be punished because some break the law in more direct ways (i.e piracy of games)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform

Edited by pirichios, 06 August 2007 - 06:59 AM.


#220 stopit33

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 6 2007, 07:28 AM) View Post

i stand humble and corrected. I also stand flatered. someone registered on the forums just to correct a mistake i made. I should feel special. biggrin.gif
stopit33, xbmc isnt only for streaming videos. it can and will upscale your dvd's up to hd resolutions(yes your real original ones) it would be nice if you were a little more assertive and a little bit less dogmatic regarding other people's views. As for myself i do understand where you are coming from regarding the legalities of it as obviously we both know what they are regarding the software. what i argue is that homebrew on a console should be allowed. everytime you say anybody that has a modded console is a pirate, you are giving a stereotype. I feel it is an insult very close to racial slur in some aspects. as chancer said there are some people who love homebrew and they should not be punished because some break the law in more direct ways (i.e piracy of games)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform


I really do apologies for my assumption that every body who uses a moded Xbox is a pirate that was wrong of me sorry.
On the other hand my point is as far as I know it is illegal to chip/softmod a Xbox, and I know what a great program XBMC is as I use it myself, what I am trying to point out not very successfully is people think they can backup there bought DVDs to there pc and stream them using XBMC quite legally and that's not the case in most country's, the DVDs in most cases are copy protected and you need a program to sort that stuff out, you cant just put a bought DVD into your pc DVD drive and copy it to your hard drive, so in reality they are pirating there own DVDs as the law stands in most country's, I am not saying its a good law but it is the law and we cant pick and choose witch law we like.


#221 ekruob

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 6 2007, 04:28 PM) View Post

btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform


You are obviously unaware that:

1. Only games studios have legal copies of the XDK - so anyone outside of said studios cannot ever legally use them

2. GentooX has already had a valid Media Center edition available for some years now!

So for all intents and purposes no one can:

1. claim that XBMC is legal to run on their own Xbox.

2. claim there is not a legal Media Center alternative.


This is also important as this legality of XBMC applies to pretty much every country in the world... e.g. in Australia it is perfectly legal to mod your Xbox - yet you could still go to court for installing XBMC onto someone else's Xbox (and be convicted).

So be careful what you claim - installing XBMC is actually a worse crime (direct blatent breach of Copyright) than installing a chip (indirect breach of para-Copyright / meta-Copyright); both in the eyes of the law, and morally! :-P

Edited by ekruob, 06 August 2007 - 04:27 PM.


#222 80107

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:26 PM

To the community,

This is an open letter to anyone who may help those affected on Aug. 1st. I was one of those directly affected by the raids on Aug. 1st. I am hoping to join together all those that were affected buy these raids in support of each other. I am suggesting that we may possibly hire a single specialized attorney or law firm to represent us against any charges that may be filed against us. I have submitted an email listed below that I have sent to a couple of site owners that I believe were also affected. I am asking also for the help of the gaming community and others in these efforts. We will most likely need to compile a list of these sites and/or the people affected so that we may contact each other with ongoing information regarding our issues. I am also asking that a possible forum posting to help us all find a specialized law firm to defend us as well as a legal defense fund be set up for this law firm. It would be great if we could find a law firm that would offer their services at a reduced rate. Of course each of the defendants would each contribute to this fund as well. I believe that this may be the best and only way for us all to fight any charges that may be brought against us. I am not a rich man by any means. I live in a small house that is almost 20 years old and drive a 10 year old van. I am self employed and work alone. This is not some large business that has corporate jets to fly around in. The results of this raid may very well bankrupt me and I may have to start my life all over again. They have taken my life away from me and I don't know what to do and this is way I am asking for any and all help. I am not asking for any personal sympathy, just the help we all need to fight for our personal rights and freedoms that the government and other want to take away from us all. The actions of these raids and laws like the DMCA effect us all. I do not modify any game consoles, install any modchips or sell, make, own, download, distribute or offer in anyway game copies, rom's etc. My site has never condoned any illegal activities and warn everyone not to break any laws. My site has many disclaimers including the purchasers invoice against using any products, software, etc. in any illegal manner and that we will not be held responsible if they do use any item in an illegal manner.

Please reply or post with any help or guidance you can offer us. We really need the help from you and the public community to fight against these raids and any charges.

1) We need a list of the 32 that were raided.
2) We need a specialized law firm to help us.
3) Setup a legal defense fund and ask for community donations.

Those of us that were affected by the raids will each contribute to this fund and I will be the first to contribute, but I know that it will never be enough to fight any lengthy legal battle.

**Below is a copy of an email that was sent to a couple of known sites that were affect on Aug. 1st

Hello Site,

I am writing you because like yourself, I was also affected by the raids on Aug. 1st. I believe that all those that were affected would benefit by communicating with each other in exchanging any information that could help us all as a whole.

I have hired a local attorney to help me individually, but believe that all of us would benefit greatly to pursue the hiring of a specialized law firm attorney that would take us all on in a single case against the government. We could all contribute to a single fund for this attorney and could even ask the public and community to help us in our defense by contributing to this fund. It would be an even

This is just an idea, but I believe from what I have read in the forums that the community could help us and rather than spending what little money we have on a local attorney that may not be knowledgeable enough in the specific laws, we find one that is. Maybe the gaming community and forums could help us in finding a knowledgeable and reputable law firm that would defend us? Just thoughts, but again I believe we will need to help each other in this time of need.

There are potentially 32 separate individuals that could form a single alliance to fight against any charges levied against us in court. Think about it and let me know your thoughts.
Another idea is to start a blog site for us all. It could either be a closed or an open forum and could even ask for donations to this legal fund. We may even inquire of xbox-scene.com and other forum/community sites for some help.

I really think that we all have to come together to help fight this. If you know of any others that were affected directly by these raids I would ask of you to pass this information on to them as well.

#223 ekruob

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:38 PM

QUOTE(80107 @ Aug 7 2007, 02:02 AM) View Post
I do not modify any game consoles, install any modchips or sell, make, own, download, distribute or offer in anyway game copies, rom's etc. My site has never condoned any illegal activities and warn everyone not to break any laws. My site has many disclaimers including the purchasers invoice against using any products, software, etc. in any illegal manner and that we will not be held responsible if they do use any item in an illegal manner.

Interesting - you should be better placed than some of the other 32 then... the fact that you only sold the chips will reduce your charges.

As long as your chips did not have any Copyrighted data on them (e.g. hacked BIOSes) then you could get away with the minimum penalty :-)

Do you have any priors?


Also, from the sound of both FallsInc and yourself, you two hardly sound like your average big-time chip sellers?! Surely there have to be 32 other gigs operating significantly larger ops?! Sounds like someone was having trouble tracking them down!

Edited by ekruob, 06 August 2007 - 04:55 PM.


#224 blueness

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:39 PM

Sigh. Yet another abuse of tax-payer dollars.
I'm so tired of this administration and its 1950s mentality on EVERYTHING!
Again. A complete and utter waste...

And Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony shouldn't be casting any stones (or getting the US government to do it for them). They've stolen/manipulated/deceived/etc. as much as anyone over the years.

Then again, none of this is about ethics. It's about protecting one's position of power.

Despite initial scepticism, I liked the Xbox/Xbox 360 and I liked the Wii. Alas, at its core Microsoft, Nintendo and the US government are like the soil in Stephen King's "Pet Sematary." It's sour.

And will Steve Balmer please exile himself to another planet...


Illegal fakes/clones are bad, but modding just adds value.

Sorry. This post is a bit of a random vent.

Good luck to those in the right and sorry for those in the wrong. Do unto others...

#225 ekruob

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:52 PM

QUOTE(80107 @ Aug 7 2007, 02:02 AM) View Post

would benefit by communicating with each other in exchanging any information that could help us all as a whole.


These make for some very interesting (and possibly useful) reading...

A bunch of Rhodes scholars examining mod legality:

http://www.austlii.e...ns/2005/30.html


The same bunch of Rhodes scholars passing judgement in favor of said mods:

http://www.austlii.e...ct/2005/58.html

Edited by ekruob, 06 August 2007 - 04:59 PM.





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