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#16 Rylinkus

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:33 AM

The Renesis engine is a new beast. It's a redesigned rotary. We don't have 100 years of advancements in it like we do the normal pushrod engine. So it's really an unknown. I doubt it burns oil every 2 fill ups. That'd be what, 1000 miles? On a new car? That's not a diesel? I don't buy it. And I hate to point out the post about the import is coming from a guy whose been a very big domestic advocate.

Don't put oil in your gas. It's not supposed to be there. And burns far less clean than gas and will merely fuck up your pistons, valves, and sensors. Run whatever the manual recommends. I assure you the engineers @ Mazda aren't stupid.

RX7? You're kidding right??? The newest one is 14 years old now??? Ummm, yeah. I don't think I need to say more.

WRX. I love em. If I were buying a new car tomorrow it'd be an STI. Granted Im gonna hold the Z28 and Van combo for a bit longer and both serve me well. Sadly the WRX wagon is gone, which sucks. I really liked it. But I wanted AWD as I live in an area that gets plenty of snow.

If I didn't have to deal with snow..... I'd own an RX8 already. They look great. They drive well, handle well (Far more important than raw power), and are more efficient gas wise when you beat on them. (Keep the RPMS up.) My only gripe is the stupid suicide doors. But I'd certainly drive an RX8. Sadly a RWD car is not practical in Maine year round.

17k don't buy you a lot of car these days. I can name faster cars that are older and will get worse gas mileage. I doubt that;s what you're looking for. I can name older cars that out perform and RX8, but are less practical. I dont know it that;s what you want. All said and done cheap, decent gas mileage, and fun are mutually exclusive options. So you're gonna have to sacrifice one to have another. WRXs are nice. But AWD so they don't get great gas mileage. They are 4 door tho, which make them a usable car. Coworker bought a V6 Charger for 17k. 1 year old. Nice car with a bunch of features. Fun? Probably not. Nice car? Yep. Big, roomy, cushy, nice looking (IMO), semi decent mpg.

I'd keep the RX8 were it me. But that's my opinion. Also realize that most of the rotary engine knowledge in this thread is based on the issues of the earlier rotaries by Mazda. And they've made ALOT of changes in the rotary. Christ guys, give em some credit. No other car company on the market has even been able to bring a rotary to market that wasn't a complete piece of shit.

#17 deakphreak

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:01 AM

Thank you for that. I dont put oil in the gas tank, i put it where the oil is supposed to go and i only put it seems like it only needs it after like 6 fillups or more, im not counting. I do check it often though. I am going to stick with this car. My all time favorite car is a dodge viper and this car is as close looking to a viper as i can get for now lol. This car had 38000 miles on it and cost me 17,000 which is pretty good. With this car not being very good for winter, we do have a jeep which will take care of that problem smile.gif I dont mind the less low end power because one thing i REALLY love about this car is how it handles and rides.

I feel that i am repeating myself sometimes, but over all i have decided this car rocks and am very happy with it. I would like suggestions though on anything that would be helpful to the engine upgrade wise like a cold air intake ect that wouldnt cost a whole lot of money. I dont know much about cars but know enough.


QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Aug 16 2007, 05:09 AM) View Post

The Renesis engine is a new beast. It's a redesigned rotary. We don't have 100 years of advancements in it like we do the normal pushrod engine. So it's really an unknown. I doubt it burns oil every 2 fill ups. That'd be what, 1000 miles? On a new car? That's not a diesel? I don't buy it. And I hate to point out the post about the import is coming from a guy whose been a very big domestic advocate.

Don't put oil in your gas. It's not supposed to be there. And burns far less clean than gas and will merely fuck up your pistons, valves, and sensors. Run whatever the manual recommends. I assure you the engineers @ Mazda aren't stupid.

RX7? You're kidding right??? The newest one is 14 years old now??? Ummm, yeah. I don't think I need to say more.

WRX. I love em. If I were buying a new car tomorrow it'd be an STI. Granted Im gonna hold the Z28 and Van combo for a bit longer and both serve me well. Sadly the WRX wagon is gone, which sucks. I really liked it. But I wanted AWD as I live in an area that gets plenty of snow.

If I didn't have to deal with snow..... I'd own an RX8 already. They look great. They drive well, handle well (Far more important than raw power), and are more efficient gas wise when you beat on them. (Keep the RPMS up.) My only gripe is the stupid suicide doors. But I'd certainly drive an RX8. Sadly a RWD car is not practical in Maine year round.

17k don't buy you a lot of car these days. I can name faster cars that are older and will get worse gas mileage. I doubt that;s what you're looking for. I can name older cars that out perform and RX8, but are less practical. I dont know it that;s what you want. All said and done cheap, decent gas mileage, and fun are mutually exclusive options. So you're gonna have to sacrifice one to have another. WRXs are nice. But AWD so they don't get great gas mileage. They are 4 door tho, which make them a usable car. Coworker bought a V6 Charger for 17k. 1 year old. Nice car with a bunch of features. Fun? Probably not. Nice car? Yep. Big, roomy, cushy, nice looking (IMO), semi decent mpg.

I'd keep the RX8 were it me. But that's my opinion. Also realize that most of the rotary engine knowledge in this thread is based on the issues of the earlier rotaries by Mazda. And they've made ALOT of changes in the rotary. Christ guys, give em some credit. No other car company on the market has even been able to bring a rotary to market that wasn't a complete piece of shit.



#18 hamwbone

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:27 PM

YAY MAZDA!!!! im trying to find some upgrades for mine, too, without voiding the warranty biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

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#19 lostboyz

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 03:51 PM

tis a lovely engine, i miss mine very much

#20 xboxhackern00b

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Aug 15 2007, 10:09 PM) View Post


WRX. I love em. If I were buying a new car tomorrow it'd be an STI. Granted Im gonna hold the Z28 and Van combo for a bit longer and both serve me well. Sadly the WRX wagon is gone, which sucks. I really liked it. But I wanted AWD as I live in an area that gets plenty of snow.

i just saw on 06-07 WRX Wagon STi on a subaru lot a couple days ago


#21 twistedsymphony

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:11 PM

I'd also say that a WRX is what you're looking for if you're going to spend 17K on another car.

I also don't understand the logic that an auto transmission is somehow better for a family than a stick shift...

If you know how to to use the clutch, what does the baby care what kind of transmission you're running?


I'll say that I drive a WRX for 6 years, put about $2000 into engine mods and another $1500 into the suspension excluding wheels and tires. I test drove a non-turbo RX-8 after that and it felt like I was driving an SUV... it was dog slow, which was to be expected but I thought it handled like crap by comparison too. I have pretty high expectations though.

With the exception of the WRX and the EVO you'd be hard pressed to find more "bang for your buck" anywhere on the road, both in terms of handling capabilities and acceleration.

If the RX-8 makes you happy then f*ck what everyone else thinks about it... They hold their value pretty well which in my experience is the the only thing that really matters when choosing a "good" car. It could be a complete pile of scrap but if it holds it's value you'll get your money back when you sell it. The next most important thing is if it makes you happy, and it sounds like the RX-8 does... so who cars what other people think. It's a nice looking car so aside from the whiny forum b*tches most people are going to swoon over it.

If you want to know where to get the most out of your $$ in terms of modifications

In terms of power
Step 1:
make it breathe better... put on a cat back exhaust, and if necessary swap out the intake. I know on the WRX intake mods are a big no-no because it screws up the air fuel map, even dropping in a K&N yields worse performance than the factory paper filter so you're best bet is to do your research on the intake. Catback exhausts can cost between $500-$1000 and then it goes up to ridiculous prices after that...

bigger is not always better when you have a normally aspirated (read: non-turbo) car. There's an optimal diameter that will create what's called a "scathing" effect and actually create aerodynamic momentum in the exhaust. Pick up a few magazines/web publications and look for a "cat-back shootout" for your car to see which one eeks out the most power. Don't bother with just a muffler section unless you want to be just another ricer squid. A cat back will have a much nicer deeper rumble too.

Also consider upgrading the exhaust hangers from the factory rubber to a tighter eurothane when you add the exhaust (usually only $20) to keep it from wobbling back and forth, it's worth it.

don't buy any exhaust that isn't mandrel bent, the fewer and less severe bends in the pipe the better. Stuff like ceramic coating on the outside and jet coating on the inside is always a plus. While lots of companies boast stainless steel it's actually one of the weakest metals you can put on an exhaust system I would not recommend stainless if you drive in a snowy area. Titanium is awesome in terms of being light weight and strong but you'll pay a small fortune for it. Mild steal will be the strongest and most durable but it will probably wind up being a few pound heavier than factory. Stainless will be fine if it's not a winter car though.

Installing a cat back is really easy, usually it's just 2 bolts where it connects to the cat, and then rubber ovals with 2 holes in them to hang the exhaust from a few points after that. You might need a wire brush to clean off the mounting surface on the cat so you don't have any leaks and you're golden.

If you want to get serious you can get headers too but they're not that necessary.

Step 2: retune the computer. Now that the car can breath better making changes to the computer system will adjust your car to make even better use of the other parts you've got. This step will be hugely benificial for a turbo vehicle but for an NA vehicle it will help a bit but not much more than a few HP.

Look for computer units that have pre-defined maps that you can use. Most units just give you access to tweaking the settings yourself and either you know what you're doing or you take it to a Pro with a dyno who will charge about $500 to tune it for you. Computer units run between $400 and $1000 depending on what you get. When I had the WRX I went with Cobb Tuning because they had pre-defined maps for Stock+ Catback and Stock +Full exhaust replacement and Stock +Bigger turbo and injectors etc.

That way you can just download a tried and true map to the unit and not bother with paying some guy to tune it for you.

Step 3:
Beyond that you're looking at serious mods getting into internal engine stuff and turbos/blowers that cost thousands and are really risky business.

There are a few cheap things you can do though like upgrading sparkplugs and wires or adding a grounding kit to deliver cleaner ground signals to all the sensors (after a computer tune this actually does more than you'd think). You can add a radiator shrowd which will provide better air flow from the grill to the engine for cooling. Upgrading your radiator fans. upgrading the radiator tubing, etc. etc.

You could also upgrade your engine and transmission mounts which would cause the engine to move less under acceleration and put more power to the ground. the mounts are usually cheap and if you're not afraid to unbolt and jack up your own engine you can install them yourself, otherwise it shouldn't be too expensive to have someone else install them for you.

In terms of Handling
Step 1: Springs

Springs are usually cheap ~$200 they'll probably cost you about $200-$300 to have them installed (or if you're not afraid to rent a spring compressor and spend a day to do it yourself). these will lower the car a bit and stiffen it up a lowered car not only looks better by reducing wheel gap but but the center of gravity is lower which will give the car less reason to lean in the turns. Combined with a stiffer spring rate your cornering capability will be night and day improved.

A few things to look out for. Don't go too low. usually about 1" below stock is MORE than enough. Too low and you'll trash your shocks inside 1000 miles and then you'll be spending another $500 +install costs to replace those as well while your car bounces up and down for hundreds of feet after you hit a single bump.

Again do your research and find out who's had good success with which springs Eibach is usually a safe bet... most if not all of their springs are designed to work with the factory shocks while providing great handling.

If you want to get crazy you can replace the factory setup with adjustable coilovers... these will cost you about $1000 to $2000 to do all 4 corners and some units are even electronically controlled from inside the car. Really only necessary if you want to get crazy with your ride

Step 2: Wheels and tires.
If you're happy with the factory wheels and tires then stay with them. Usually going +1 on the diameter and +1 to +2 on the width will yeild the best results...biger isn't always better and whatever you get make sure you check the weight and the offset as an incorrect offset will wear out your wheel bearings (costing you thousands to replace) and a weight too much higher than stock will actually hurt your handling performance.

The combination of a smaller side wall (but not too small) and wider track (but not too wide) will give your tires better contact with the road. larger wheels will also allow you to fit bigger brakes. Smaller sidewalls will make the tires absorb less of the shock and help to stiffen up the car a smidge more.

Ventilation is also important here for braking performance

Tires are a whole other challenge on to themselves, most of the time the factory will give you shitty all-season tires, going with a tire designed for aggressive road performance will make a WORLD of difference. They'll be noisy too.

Step 3:
I usually like to stiffen up the chassis a bit once I've done wheels purchasing some strut tower braces for the front and rear is not only cheap (I've bought name brand braces for less than $100 a piece) but stupid easy to install on most cars. There are also other small things unique to certain cars you can do. locking the sub frame to the rear of the unibody on the WRX required going to home depot for 2 bolts and it made a ridiculous difference in tightening up the rear end.

people who get crazy with this will strip down the car and stitch weld all of the seams... something tells me you're not ready for that laugh.gif

Step 4: Sway bars, endlinks, etc.
Sway bars are a long rod shaped like this |__________| that connects the suspension from your left wheel to that of your right. Their goal is to keep the compression of the two wheels relatively within the same range. Without a sway bar taking a hard corner the outside wheels will compress and the inside wheels will extend. a sway bar will balance it out by pushing some of the compressive force from the outside onto the inside as well as some the extensive force from the inside onto the outside. your car already has sway bars but they're likely very weak. The amount stiffness they apply is related to the length of the arms on either side as well as the diameter of the bar.

You'll want to replace front and rear. A good set will be adjustable which means you'll have multiple holes on the ends of the arms where you can choose a stiffer setup going closer to the inside or a looser setup going closer to the outside. bigger sway bars will dramatically reduce the amount your car rolls in the corners. After fitting my WRX it felt like the car didn't even roll at all. This is one of the last things you should do because it comes with some responsibility. bigger sway bars can add enough stiffness that a a sharp corner will put your car into a drift instead of rolling, where stock suspension has a whole lot of body roll to warn you before the care brakes loose. Obviously with bigger and better tires and other suspension components you'll get a whole lot more lateral grip. but it's something to keep in mind

You'll want to change the endlinks at the same time as the factory ones will probably brake under the added stiffness. Some cars will recommend replacing the sway bar mounts as well.

Sway bars and end links are usually easy to install, and for these you'll want to use ramps instead of jacking the car up because sitting flat on the wheels will make the sway bars the easiest to work with. For most cars this is again a simple install that is little more than a few bolts and some grease. Sway bars will usually run you about $500-$600 front and rear and endlinks will usually run $100-$200 to do all 4 corners. Often times you can find them cheaper in a kit with all the parts and mounts to do the whole car at once. If you're going to do this in steps though, replace the endlinks first THEN the sway bars....

Step 5:
at this point there are lots of crazy things you can do like replacing all of the suspension linkages and tierods, installing adjustable strut tower tops etc. Most of these things are relatively cheap parts ($50-$100 a piece) but require a whole lot of work to install.

Hope liked car modding 101...

IMO if you got a Cat Back and some springs you'd probably spend about $1000-$1500 and would improve the handling as well as engine power, as well as look (lower + sweet exhaust tips) and sound. cool.gif <-best bang for your buck

QUOTE(xboxhackern00b @ Aug 16 2007, 02:23 PM) View Post

i just saw on 06-07 WRX Wagon STi on a subaru lot a couple days ago


are you sure that wasn't the limited edition forrester? AFAIK they never made an STi wagon, but they are releaseing a limited edition Forrester XT with an STi front end. ph34r.gif

#22 Chancer

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE(xboxhackern00b @ Aug 15 2007, 10:02 PM) View Post

That would be a WRX

Boy racer car over here. Garbage inside. fast Engine. High insurance. When all said and done it's a bloody Hyundai with a bodykit.
My mate has the JPN import goes like shit but bloody tacky.Interior is lacking. Still if speed and handling are all you want go for it.
Personally I would get an Audi RS4 but they are huge money here so will probably be a no no .

Edited by Chancer, 16 August 2007 - 09:29 PM.


#23 garver

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 10:20 PM

I like the Rx-8 it can easily out handle my car but im in to straight line races. If thats what you enjoy and want a new car I recommend one of these.

My baby

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#24 deakphreak

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 11:53 PM

Thanks for all the replies and twistedsymphony for the usual novel of a post. It gave me a little more knowledge about cars and gave me something to do on break at work. My overall thoughts on the RX8 is that in my opinion has a sweet look to the body, the engine is pretty powerful at high RPM's and the handling is great. I havnt driven many other cars, but im satisfied so far with it so im going to stay with it. Im not sure if I get a cat back exhaust installed whether it will void my warranty or not. Its still under factory warranty and I have a 100,000 extended warranty on it. Thats one thing I need to take into consideration before any upgrades.

The reason I say the AT is better with a family is because you have 1 less thing to worry about when trying to stop a baby from crying while driving. I dont think i would have any issues driving a manual with a baby in the back but im sure my wife would have a hard time.

garver, that is a nice car but just not my taste. The main thing for me is to like how the car looks and to feel comfortable driving it.

#25 capboy210

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:49 AM

Just trying to get things straight, please take no offence. I'm not trying to take you down.

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Aug 15 2007, 11:09 PM) View Post

Don't put oil in your gas. It's not supposed to be there. And burns far less clean than gas and will merely fuck up your pistons, valves, and sensors. Run whatever the manual recommends. I assure you the engineers @ Mazda aren't stupid.


There are no pistons or valves in a rx7 or any rotary engine alone.....There are multiple threads in rx8club.com and rx7club.com that prove that you can premix without any downsides. Read this 20 page one at a popular RX8 site! Compaines even make oils that are designed to be put in the gas tank, Idemitsu Racing Rotary Fuel Lube is a product just for this! (google it) But this is a rotary engine exclusive thing. For a piston engine it's a no-no. It will gunk up your engine leaving sludge in places that you dont want it.

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Aug 15 2007, 11:09 PM) View Post
RX7? You're kidding right??? The newest one is 14 years old now??? Ummm, yeah. I don't think I need to say more.


The last model of the RX7 was made in 1995, 2007-1995= 12 years old. But the still engine concepts remain the same. from 1967 to present the rotary engine still has 2 rotors in it. They all still use 4 "stokes", most the rotors are still iron. The housing that the rotors sit in remains roughly the same, size has changed but the bigger picture has not. Housings are still mostly aluminium. All rotary engines are capable of running very low octane fuels. The concepts remain the same, so putting in oil in the gas tank is not uncommon for any mazda rotary engine. If I can find it there is an article by an mazda engineer explaining the benefits of mixing oil with your gas and that it is not bad for your car if done properly.

My dad engineers different types of rotary engines so I can personally tell you that mixing oil in your gas tank is not going to hurt your engine. It will help it if done properly! cool.gif

Edited by capboy210, 17 August 2007 - 12:51 AM.


#26 capboy210

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:03 AM

QUOTE(deakphreak @ Aug 16 2007, 01:37 AM) View Post

I would like suggestions though on anything that would be helpful to the engine upgrade wise like a cold air intake ect that wouldnt cost a whole lot of money. I dont know much about cars but know enough.


Name a price range for what you plan to spend on upgrading. You can also visit rx8club.com and they will give you some better insight!

Just FYI

A better intake will give your rx8 a better tone and will sound slightly louder and sportier. It will not sound like a rice rocket either, its not much of a noise increase at all but your engine will benefit smile.gif

Edited by capboy210, 17 August 2007 - 01:04 AM.


#27 twistedsymphony

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:23 AM

QUOTE(Chancer @ Aug 16 2007, 05:03 PM) View Post

Boy racer car over here. Garbage inside. fast Engine. High insurance. When all said and done it's a bloody Hyundai with a bodykit.
My mate has the JPN import goes like shit but bloody tacky.Interior is lacking. Still if speed and handling are all you want go for it.
Personally I would get an Audi RS4 but they are huge money here so will probably be a no no .


oh please... the RS4 isn't even in the same class

becides the plush carpets and tight controls I wouldn't waste my money on an Audi

my brother is an audi fanatic and he had a A4 1.8T comparisons between his car and my WRX were regular.

In the 6 years I owned the WRX and with all the modifications I made to it nothing on it ever broke. NOTHING with the exception of regular maintenance. The car was solid and I beat the snot out of it... not even a single squeak or rattle.

My brother's Audi in 40K miles he had the catalitic converters die, all 4 wheel bearings break. the oil pressure sensor died, the 02 sensor died, the reverse gear sensor died, his taillights shorted out and had to have the connectors replaced twice, he had to replace both front ball joints, and the car was full of weird noises. He had it in the shop for countless other reasons too

Arguably he took better care of his audi then i did of my WRX

It's not limited to him either.

I had a friend in college who was loaded and bought a brand new AllRoad within the first 10K miles the suspension computer broke and the car was stuck in the up position (it's got electrically controlled ride hight) the left head light sparer got stuck up and on on 2 separate occasions and the engine would sometime just start running ridiculously rough and start miss firing. He took it back to the dealer claiming it was a lemon when it left him stranded somewhere when it wouldn't accept his key.

he got a whole new brand new AllRoad and it had a whole new set of problems such as a leaking sunroof and similar engine and electrical problems... He took it back to the dealer and bought a Subaru Outback which he still drives today

One of my co-workers bought an A4 and sited some of the similar problems to what my brother had with the added benefit that inside of 30K the timing belt jumped and bent a valve...

I've known other people with VWs and Audis and ALL of them have had ridiculous amounts of problems with them.

During my Automotive research days in college Audi was found to have one of the highest perceived quality ratings among consumers but in terms of actual quality measured in terms of unplanned shop time they are the 2nd worst in the industry.

Besides in terms of European Luxury Subaru really turned it around in 2002 even Top Gear was impressed with how much higher the perceived build quality was.

The WRX might be a boy racers dream but it's not like the US has all that many options for affordable performance vehicles... We get no Citron, no Pugeot, no Alpha and the only BMWs and Benzes we get are the $50K+ luxury models. If you want a sports car you have to choose between the American land yachts that weight over 2 tons can't turn for shit and suck gas like it's leaking, or the capable but cheap japanese cars....

the European cars might offer the best cross of cushy luxury and performance but the actual build quality is mostly crap (BMW and MB aren't much better than Audi) and they're ridiculously overpriced for what they actually offer.

#28 lostboyz

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 05:32 AM

side note: they do make sti wagons now

#29 xboxhackern00b

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 06:21 AM

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Aug 16 2007, 02:47 PM) View Post

are you sure that wasn't the limited edition forrester? AFAIK they never made an STi wagon, but they are releaseing a limited edition Forrester XT with an STi front end. ph34r.gif

i thought the same also i'll take a pic of it tomorrow or somethin and post it im positive it's not a forester

#30 Chancer

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:14 AM

QUOTE
oh please... the RS4 isn't even in the same class

No IMO it is in a much higher class. The list of invoices for repairs runs into absolute thousands (including 3 Air Con Compressors in as many years)for my mates WRX and he nurtures it.
No doubt the engines are strong beasts and the handling is excellent. But performance (0 to 60 4.6secs for the RS4) Review build quality , interiors trim levels are nowhere near the specification of an RS4.They are in fact a modified Hyundai.
When the WRX came out everyone dived for it (My mate included) now he admits the only reason he keeps it is performance and handling. If he hammers it he only gets 14MPG

Audi A4 1.8TS is the present Audi I have, but unlike your brothers experience I have had 131K of virtually zero problems. It is now 10 years old and still drives like new, not a rattle or squeak in site. For every WRX you can quote reliability I can quote the same for people I know with Audi. Probably applies to all other makes as well. Same with unreliability. I did have a VW Golf GTI though that was really poor.
I have more troubles with my Vauxhall (GM) Astra Estates than with the Audi.
If I was buying again I would probably look for a Lexus IS200 in all honesty. My brother had one and I loved it.
I have to say in all honesty the Mazda in the pics looks way better visually than both the WRX and the Audi.
If the runnning costs where you reside are too high on European cars then obviously that limits the choice a bit.

Edited by Chancer, 17 August 2007 - 09:19 AM.





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