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Epic's Mark Rein about UT3, Users Mods and DVD Space on Xbox 360


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#1 Xbox-Scene

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:05 PM

Epic's Mark Rein about UT3, Users Mods and DVD Space on Xbox 360
Posted by XanTium | August 15 16:05 EST | News Category: Xbox360
 
From Mark Rein on forums.epicgames.com:


I continue to be disappointed that folks on the internet treat any positive thing we say about one platform as some sort of critique of another platform. We're a multi-platform company folks please come to grips with that. We like the PC. We like the 360. We like the PS3. We like the Macintosh. We like Linux. We will deliver UT3 for all of these platforms and it will rock on every one.

The simple facts state that the optical disc on the PS3 holds more data than the optical disc on the 360. If we exceed size of the 360s optical disc then we'll have to find alternative ways to get the content to 360 users such as making it downloadable. Adding a second DVD to a game like UT3 would be a challenge because when playing online you might not know exactly what map you're going to be playing next and we have to be able to accommodate users of the core system. So does that mean the disc on the 360 might have a map or two less? Possibly although it is too early to tell for sure. People love Unreal Tournament because we always ship it with tons of great content but that also makes it a bit of a disc hog - in a good way

Obviously, and as is true with most major games on 360 and PS3, you're going to be putting your hard drive to good use if you want to experience the full richness of content that UT3 will have to offer over the lifetime of the game. the fact that you can do this is a good thing.

I don't know the exact numbers but I suspect the version of Gears of War that most of our customers play today on their 360s, when you combine the downloadable content with the content on the disc, is larger than what we could fit on the 360's optical disc alone. So clearly there are perfectly good strategies to cope with this situation. We're all very used to downloading extra content for console games and with UT3 there will be lots of it for all supported platforms. In fact the cool thing about our engine is that when you make content for one platform it can run on all of them. If history is any indication, the vast majority of UT3 content won't even come from Epic - it will come from some very brilliant end users with lots of cool and innovative ideas.

When it comes to user created mods on the 360 - we will work with Microsoft to find a way to support them. We just don't have all the answers today and it isn't our chief priority at this very moment because we already have our hands completely full shipping UT3 on PC and PS3 as well as shipping Gears of War on PC. When we get those out of the way, and get a little time to spend with our friends and families, then we'll get back on this issue and figure it out.






#2 the soul poet

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 08:49 PM

tongue.gif Yep, add any extra content free that equals or surpasses the PS3 and i'll be happy!

#3 qifanxi

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:03 PM

Disc space considerations when developing console games does not bode well for John Carmack's megatexturing.

#4 TexT

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:33 PM

Think i prefer quality over quantity myself, given that the x360 version is almost guaranteed to look and play ( thanks to live ) better.

#5 kidkinetix

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE(TexT @ Aug 15 2007, 10:09 PM) View Post

Think i prefer quality over quantity myself, given that the x360 version is almost guaranteed to look and play ( thanks to live ) better.


I honestly have no idea how you came to this conclusion?

- PS3 allows keyboard and mouse
- PS3 online has more potential with "out of the gate" mod support, along with the ability to support custom servers, and go Cross platform. it's missing out on xbox live friends list and invite system but that's about it.
- Rein, even as an annoying PR guy, has suggested that the UT3 engine is running very well on PS3.


#6 TexT

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:18 PM

Anyone notice that Epic does this when they are hyping an exclusive? Remember when they said Gears cant run on PS3 do to memory? Seems like Rein likes bating the fanboys.

#7 sinister slipknot

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE(kidkinetix @ Aug 15 2007, 10:35 PM) View Post

I honestly have no idea how you came to this conclusion?

- PS3 allows keyboard and mouse
- PS3 online has more potential with "out of the gate" mod support, along with the ability to support custom servers, and go Cross platform. it's missing out on xbox live friends list and invite system but that's about it.
- Rein, even as an annoying PR guy, has suggested that the UT3 engine is running very well on PS3.



You can get keyboard and mice to work on the 360 with the right hardware.
Cross platform? With what, the 360 or a Windows pc? So technically the PS3 wouldnt be able to do cross platform if other platforms couldnt either. Besides with the ammount of people on Xbox LIVE i doubt your going to run out of enough players to play for the need to go cross platform. Besides, cross platform is a cool concept and its cool that its possible so its not all about having to have the right console but going cross platform doesnt make gameplay any better, and presumably not worse.

#8 Tiuk

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:27 PM

I don't mind downloading it, as long as it's free or the PS3 users are charged extra for the game to make up for what we'll have to pay on LIVE. Who thinks that'll happen?

#9 ConteZero76

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:53 PM

QUOTE(TexT @ Aug 15 2007, 10:54 PM) View Post

Anyone notice that Epic does this when they are hyping an exclusive? Remember when they said Gears cant run on PS3 do to memory? Seems like Rein likes bating the fanboys.


Yes, and as long as you care they not only hype, they deliver too.
Honestly I'm out of that race but my Premium X360 has a 20Gb HDD total, and I feel uneasy with hogging my console with maps.

#10 xjustsumloserx

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 11:38 PM

well with the oblivion and PSU expansions along with UT3 maps, that might actually give me a decent reason to get the 120GB HDD.

#11 incognegro

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:00 AM

why are ppl so negative? when i read that statement all i got from it was user created might be possible on the 360.

QUOTE
I honestly have no idea how you came to this conclusion?

- PS3 allows keyboard and mouse
- PS3 online has more potential with "out of the gate" mod support, along with the ability to support custom servers, and go Cross platform. it's missing out on xbox live friends list and invite system but that's about it.
- Rein, even as an annoying PR guy, has suggested that the UT3 engine is running very well on PS3.


Its also missing achievements and xbox live's overall sense of community thats makes a game that much better.

Edited by incognegro, 16 August 2007 - 12:06 AM.


#12 Tony42077

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:03 AM

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ Aug 15 2007, 11:29 PM) View Post

Yes, and as long as you care they not only hype, they deliver too.
Honestly I'm out of that race but my Premium X360 has a 20Gb HDD total, and I feel uneasy with hogging my console with maps.

I would much rather fill my HDD with game related content rather than digital media. I see it as a gameing system first, and a digital media hub second. Most of the free stuff available for download is a bunch of advertising crap anyways. If I'm gonna buy a movie or show, I don't want it to be locked to one system. I do like the idea of new release rentals off of marketplace though.

#13 Jagosix

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:19 AM

Hello Fellow Gamers. From Mark Rein
QUOTE
I don't know the exact numbers but I suspect the version of Gears of War that most of our customers play today on their 360s, when you combine the downloadable content with the content on the disc, is larger than what we could fit on the 360's optical disc alone. So clearly there are perfectly good strategies to cope with this situation. We're all very used to downloading extra content for console games and with UT3 there will be lots of it for all supported platforms. In fact the cool thing about our engine is that when you make content for one platform it can run on all of them. If history is any indication, the vast majority of UT3 content won't even come from Epic - it will come from some very brilliant end users with lots of cool and innovative ideas.


Really ? dry.gif HHHmmmm...let's do some math.


GEARS Of War 6.43 GB full game with default maps.
Map pack 1 is 99mb & Map pack 2 is 230MB.

Total size of all maps & full game is 6.76GB
A full DVD9 is 8.58GB. So the available space is 1.82GB

4 maps in Gears = 230MB
So in theory 4/x = 230MB/1.82GB x = 31.6 MAPS!!! biggrin.gif

Now that's a lot of Maps for Gears. If they use the same engine & programming technique, then the amount of maps shouldn't be that big of a deal to fit on a DVD9.

Sorry Mark, I just had to call you out on that particular remark about the maps for Gears. They all could've fit on a standard DVD9 with room to spare. So.. please, come up with something better than that.


#14 Paronga

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:31 AM

QUOTE(Jagosix @ Aug 16 2007, 09:55 AM) View Post

Hello Fellow Gamers. From Mark Rein

Really ? dry.gif HHHmmmm...let's do some math.
GEARS Of War 6.43 GB full game with default maps.
Map pack 1 is 99mb & Map pack 2 is 230MB.

Total size of all maps & full game is 6.76GB
A full DVD9 is 8.58GB. So the available space is 1.82GB

4 maps in Gears = 230MB
So in theory 4/x = 230MB/1.82GB x = 31.6 MAPS!!! biggrin.gif

Now that's a lot of Maps for Gears. If they use the same engine & programming technique, then the amount of maps shouldn't be that big of a deal to fit on a DVD9.

Sorry Mark, I just had to call you out on that particular remark about the maps for Gears. They all could've fit on a standard DVD9 with room to spare. So.. please, come up with something better than that.


That is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. I mean, heaven forbid that they compress they maps on live and it gets extracted onto your HDD once its done dry.gif

#15 ConteZero76

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:34 AM

QUOTE(Jagosix @ Aug 16 2007, 12:55 AM) View Post

Hello Fellow Gamers. From Mark Rein

Really ? dry.gif HHHmmmm...let's do some math.
GEARS Of War 6.43 GB full game with default maps.
Map pack 1 is 99mb & Map pack 2 is 230MB.

Total size of all maps & full game is 6.76GB
A full DVD9 is 8.58GB. So the available space is 1.82GB

4 maps in Gears = 230MB
So in theory 4/x = 230MB/1.82GB x = 31.6 MAPS!!! biggrin.gif

Now that's a lot of Maps for Gears. If they use the same engine & programming technique, then the amount of maps shouldn't be that big of a deal to fit on a DVD9.

Sorry Mark, I just had to call you out on that particular remark about the maps for Gears. They all could've fit on a standard DVD9 with room to spare. So.. please, come up with something better than that.


As you should know the maximum XBox360 DVD size is fixed.
You should be familiar with a parameter: LayerBreak=1913760
Ok, LayerBreak is the sector number where the head move from layer 0 to layer 1 and start writing backward (Opposite Track Path).
You should know also that a DVD sector is 2048 bytes so each layer holds up to 3919380480 bytes, or 7838760960 bytes total (7475,625 MB).
Well, now you've to subtract the first track size (you know, the one with the "dancing circles" in DVD Video format) twice (because that's unused on layer 1 too).
What you get back (minus something for XDVD structure, minus something for security placehold, if they still exist on XBox360) is the actual maximum DVD size.
You know, it's more like 7,05 Gb than 8,58 Gb.

See Ya!




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