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This Is Soooo Weird... X Clamp Related Could Someone Explain What Happ


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#1 booker

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:59 PM

Hello,

My 360 gave me the 3rls a few month ago... i tried the X clamp fix.

It worked for around 4 month.. but i had to re apply thermal paste every once in a while.. because the system started freezing every now and then.

After a few month, i added a little of glue to the screws.. so they stay tight.. since then the system works for 2 month without a problem.

Last friday i got a all scanlines on the imagen.. like little blocks.
I restart the system.. same thing after a few min.

i re build the whole X clamp.. and it gave me the 3rl 1st time since the original 1st time...

I tried twice.. same result.

I said ok, is gone for good.

So i put the ORIGINAL X CLAMP back.. and i left it there..

At night.. just to bother.. i turned the system.. and it worked.
I play the whole weekend without a problem. So basically my system is as original settings.. (how it failed the first time)

What is happening?

I know it wonīt last long.. but.. i donīt find any logic explanation..



#2 RDC

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:04 PM

It'll fail again, the original X-clamps are just doing the same thing the X-clamp mod was doing now, making the bad connections touch again, it won't last. Have it reflowed professionally if ya haven't heat gunned it or wrapped it in a towel, then replace the X-clamps, it's the more proper fix and if the 360 is still in somewhat decent shape a proper fix like that should keep it going for a good bit longer.

#3 booker

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:25 PM

RDC,
thanks.. but i still donīt get it.
The first time i did this.. the xbox360 had the 3rl.

I did the X clamp mod... and it worked again...

couple of questions.. but iīm sooo confuse and i donīt know what i can do.

This last for around.. 7 month already... how is posible to last this longer if the connectors were not sold properly?

So this menas the X clamp did nothing on my system?

If i donīt relfow the system... there is no point to do the X clamp fix?.. i should just re move and re conect the original X clamp until it work again?

How is posible that people who had the 0102 code and didnīt reflow the systemboard were able to fix it with the x clamp.. they didnīt have the connectos loose too?

AS you can see.. iīm confuse!


PD: About the relfow is not an option.. people donīt do that in my country and those who can do it, they can be trust.


#4 Navillos

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:41 PM

all the x-clamp fix does is apply more pressure to the chips to make the cold/broken solder joints make contact again. after a while the solder becomes more and more fragile with the heat from the chips, so they cant carry any electrical current anymore. so the only proper way to fix is a reball or a reflow.

edit: ha beat ya to it RDC tongue.gif

Edited by Navillos, 21 August 2007 - 06:46 PM.


#5 RDC

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:44 PM

That is the problem with the 0102 error and the bad solder joints, they are just really, really bad and it only takes the slightest movement one way or the other to make it work, or not work, and for how long is never known. Your 360 may last a week now, or a day, or 6 months, ya just can not tell.

If having it reflowed is not an option then you will have to keep doing what you are doing, but that is going to get to a point one day where it does not work any more from all the additional stress that is being placed on it.

#6 Bruc3LeeRoy

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE(RDC @ Aug 21 2007, 07:20 PM) View Post

That is the problem with the 0102 error and the bad solder joints, they are just really, really bad and it only takes the slightest movement one way or the other to make it work, or not work, and for how long is never known. Your 360 may last a week now, or a day, or 6 months, ya just can not tell.

If having it reflowed is not an option then you will have to keep doing what you are doing, but that is going to get to a point one day where it does not work any more from all the additional stress that is being placed on it.


so your saying that some 36o's may never work because of to much stress on the chips!? ...

#7 booker

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE(RDC @ Aug 21 2007, 07:20 PM) View Post

That is the problem with the 0102 error and the bad solder joints, they are just really, really bad and it only takes the slightest movement one way or the other to make it work, or not work, and for how long is never known. Your 360 may last a week now, or a day, or 6 months, ya just can not tell.

If having it reflowed is not an option then you will have to keep doing what you are doing, but that is going to get to a point one day where it does not work any more from all the additional stress that is being placed on it.


RDC,
THanks...

So basically evyerone who did this X clamp fix didnīt actally fix the system, they just succed reverting the contacts but those are not solder..
They should do the Reflow to actually FIX it ?

i guess iīll wait until it fails again.. and then iīll re do the x clamp.. or re atach the current x clamp... sdo the trick is to moved and remove apply different preassure here and there.... oh well.

Iīll do this until one day it will be dead for good, i hope the 65nm core will get released by then

Edited by booker, 21 August 2007 - 09:27 PM.


#8 Reaper527

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 09:34 PM

QUOTE(Navillos @ Aug 21 2007, 02:17 PM) View Post

all the x-clamp fix does is apply more pressure to the chips to make the cold/broken solder joints make contact again. after a while the solder becomes more and more fragile with the heat from the chips, so they cant carry any electrical current anymore. so the only proper way to fix is a reball or a reflow.



actually the original x clamps cause the motherboard to bend, and the x clamp replacement keeps the board level. it isn't entirely a pressure fix.

#9 ascalon

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 09:46 PM

QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Aug 21 2007, 02:10 PM) View Post

actually the original x clamps cause the motherboard to bend, and the x clamp replacement keeps the board level. it isn't entirely a pressure fix.


Yes it is, because it allows for equal pressure on the board (no warping).

As I myself have said many times... (hold on, my 360 just artrived through UPS. I'll finish this later tongue.gif)

#10 Navillos

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Aug 21 2007, 04:10 PM) View Post

actually the original x clamps cause the motherboard to bend, and the x clamp replacement keeps the board level. it isn't entirely a pressure fix.


dont get me wrong the x-clamps are crap. but they would be better if the recesses in the case actually compensated for the height, ala made the board sit flush. also i think if the slots for the clamps were higher (on the standoffs) and standoffs were a little shorter it would work out great. it would make the "clamp" part of the x-clamp sit against the ground points on the board and keep it from warping. but then it would be a bitch getting them off. with the x-clamp fix there is no real way to know if the heatsink meets the dye entirely level. because washers vary in thinkness by thousanths. so when your cranking down on the screws your essentially flexing the board but not as much.

Edited by Navillos, 21 August 2007 - 10:00 PM.


#11 Tortuga2112

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 10:09 PM

navillos,

have a look at the tut I posted.x clamp replacement tut

The way I did it gives a perfectly level clamping of the heatsink , board and chassis.



#12 Navillos

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Aug 21 2007, 04:45 PM) View Post

navillos,

have a look at the tut I posted.x clamp replacement tut

The way I did it gives a perfectly level clamping of the heatsink , board and chassis.


never saw that one bud. its pretty kewl, i like how you threaded the legs.

#13 Tortuga2112

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:57 AM

thanks. I'm hoping some people will try it . I've only done a few box's since I thought of it, but so far so good.

#14 RDC

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 04:29 AM

QUOTE(Bruc3LeeRoy @ Aug 21 2007, 03:16 PM) View Post

so your saying that some 36o's may never work because of to much stress on the chips!? ...

I'm saying that if the thing is being torn apart ever month or so to try a different fix on it before long yes the BGA joints aren't going to be able to be pushed back together enough and a reflow and more than likely a reball will need to be done on them.

QUOTE(booker @ Aug 21 2007, 05:00 PM) View Post

RDC,
THanks...

So basically evyerone who did this X clamp fix didnīt actally fix the system, they just succed reverting the contacts but those are not solder..
They should do the Reflow to actually FIX it ?

Exactly, every 'fix' that's out there is actually fixing nothing. The only proper way to fix it is to have them reflowed or reballed and then some type of X-clamp replacement done to keep the board warping to a minimum and the BGA joints connected like they are supposed to be. None of this would have happened, or at the least happened at a decent 3~5% margin like M$ so ignorantly stated from the start of these issues, if the board was of good quality and the thing designed properly from the start.

Yes the X-clamp and other 'fixes' do work (most times), but just squeezing together something so it touches and makes contact when it's supposed to be soldered to do that job is no real fix at all.

#15 booker

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 06:45 PM

RDC

So if i buy a new Xbox360 i should do the X clamp before turning the system for first time?
Will this avoid the loose soldering in the future?

What do you recommend.?




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