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New Version of Wireless Controller Board, CG


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#1 RDC

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 06:46 PM

This is from one of the Black controllers that came with the PnC Kit, be dumping that thing later on. I just had a Black controller apart the other day and it was still the old version,so not sure if only these are sporting the new design, or if it's something they all will be going to in the future. My guess is before long these will be turning up in all of the newer Wireless controllers since it pretty much dumps everything into just one IC. The battery has the same info on it as a regular PnC battery, so nothing different there so far, have to do a couple of charges with this new controller and compare that to see if anything different is being stored there. Ya can read more on the PnC battery Pack HERE to understand more of what all that was about. wink.gif

I'll be tracing this new bad boy out as well, like I did with the Wired and Wireless before it as soon as I get some time to.

OLD 'MATRIX' VERSION TOP

IPB Image


NEW 'CG' VERSION TOP

IPB Image


OLD 'MATRIX' VERSION BOTTOM

IPB Image


NEW 'CG' VERSION BOTTOM

IPB Image


EDIT: First glance over this thing and it appears to be a common ground controller now, barf, though it will make for some other controller modifications I've been pondering easier.

Edited by RDC, 04 May 2008 - 02:02 PM.


#2 alemerson

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 07:44 PM

what would be the point of switching to a common ground setup...

#3 Acurariders1320

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 08:11 PM

What is a "common ground setup?" RDC, I need your help. Do you know anythign about a tilt board, the talismoon ones? Can you visit this thread and tell me what I might need to do. Has anyone done this mod because I need to know, do I desolder each pentometer from each analog stick or just the right analog stick? That is just what is bugging me right now and the instructions don't say anything about that. By the way, I have a fifteen watt solder, is that good enough to solder the wires and what is the best way to desolder something so I don't ruin the board. Thanks.

Edited by Acurariders1320, 24 August 2007 - 08:13 PM.


#4 sinister slipknot

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE(Acurariders1320 @ Aug 24 2007, 08:47 PM) View Post

What is a "common ground setup?" RDC, I need your help. Do you know anythign about a tilt board, the talismoon ones? Can you visit this thread and tell me what I might need to do. Has anyone done this mod because I need to know, do I desolder each pentometer from each analog stick or just the right analog stick? That is just what is bugging me right now and the instructions don't say anything about that. By the way, I have a fifteen watt solder, is that good enough to solder the wires and what is the best way to desolder something so I don't ruin the board. Thanks.



It's where all the grounds are connected at the same time and active, with the positives being controlled. The other setup would be common power with the grounds being controlled.

#5 RDC

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 09:20 PM

A 'common ground' setup just means that ground is common to every button on the controller. For example, if you have A, B, X and Y those are 4 wires, then you have 1 other wire that is ground that is 'common' to all of the others, pressing A makes the connection from the A wire to ground, same with B, X and so on. The older controllers use a Matrix setup, where there are no common wires, some buttons do share the same connection as others, but there is no common line for them all like with a common ground setup. The advantage to the Matrix setup is you have fewer wires for the same number of buttons. The 16 buttons on the Wireless controller need 17 lines in a common ground setup, while in the Matrix setup it's only 8 lines.

I see no advantage to them switching to a common ground setup, but the thing works either way and only they know why the change up. Maybe the new IC is setup differently, maybe they couldn't figure out their own controllers when they started acting screwy, who knows. The advantage to a Matrix setup is fewer wires for the same number of buttons, that means less traces, and it can be smaller overall, but it's more of a headache to figure out. The common ground setup has been around in just about everything for a long time now, kinda odd to see it in the Wireless now after it being such a witch to figure out the first time.

Edited by RDC, 01 September 2009 - 11:06 AM.


#6 sicknasty413

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:44 PM

Nice find RDC.

You think they changed up the wired controllers as well!???!

#7 alemerson

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:40 PM

i guess this will finally satisfy all of the wireless controller in the guitar hero guitar threads

#8 Acurariders1320

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 03:52 AM

Let us know what you find out about the controller if there is anything new.

Edited by RDC, 25 August 2007 - 06:52 AM.


#9 RDC

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 06:51 AM

QUOTE(sicknasty413 @ Aug 24 2007, 06:20 PM) View Post

Nice find RDC.

You think they changed up the wired controllers as well!???!

Maybe, though there wouldn't be any real point. have to await and see if I run across one that's different, just found this one yesterday and was quite shocked/pleased when I opened it up and nothing was in the right place and a lot was missing.


QUOTE(alemerson @ Aug 24 2007, 07:16 PM) View Post

i guess this will finally satisfy all of the wireless controller in the guitar hero guitar threads

It has squat to do with the Wireless Guitar and the exact same problems still exist in making a Wireless one from the controller, nothing has changed in that respect.

#10 YUNG ERIC

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 07:27 AM

this is a nice find I just bought a black controller with the PnC kit 2 days ago so now I will check it out. but the common groud setup will make mods for it easier.

and as always Thank you RDC.

P.S it looks the hte Besttilt ad Tiltboard may not fit internally on these new controllers.

#11 RDC

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:01 PM

OK, here we go so far. It IS a common ground setup now, probably cheaper in some way to make I imagine, and is anyway because they've eliminated 2 ICs from the design, the RF module and EEPROM. From what I've just looked at so far adding in extra buttons and such is going to have to be done with a more careful hand, most of the button traces run right to a via that goes right under the main IC, so as for anything being '"easier" on this board that's not really the case.

The LEDs are marked with a dot for Cathode and that whole setup now is common Cathode now, not like the old board where it was common Anode.

IPB Image



The things that are the same and will be interchangeable between this and the older version Wireless board are the...

Stick
Triggers
LB/RB switches
Case/Shell
Motors and their Connectors
PnC Connectors
Headset Connector
Sync switch


QUOTE(YUNG ERIC @ Aug 25 2007, 03:03 AM) View Post

this is a nice find I just bought a black controller with the PnC kit 2 days ago so now I will check it out. but the common groud setup will make mods for it easier.

and as always Thank you RDC.

P.S it looks the hte Besttilt ad Tiltboard may not fit internally on these new controllers.

Welcome, and be interested to hear what board is in the one ya have also.

The tilt boards wouldn't work anyway, since the directions for them are for all the points in the old board. wink.gif But yeah they're not fitting in here mechanically at all without some work.

#12 YUNG ERIC

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 09:55 PM

Ok so I looked at the controller and my black controller with PnC was an old board.

Also if you remove the battery pack. look where the AA battery springs connect and if you see C62 then you have the old board. if you do not see C62 then you have a new board. Hope that helps.

#13 RDC

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 02:33 AM

I've done a little bit of tracing out this and that on this new CG (Common Ground) Wireless board, and I have to say it right suxx something awful. There's not one thing easier about using this board for anything. True it's common ground, which makes doing some things easier, but the way this thing is laid out you're gonna have to be really good with the iron, working with small traces, Vias and soldering onto IC legs if you want to do anything with it, otherwise, this controller just isn't for you and the older versions of it are a cake walk by comparison for soldering on to.

This is just a quick run of the A,B,X,Y, D-pad, Back, Guide, Start Lth, Rth, LB and RB buttons. You can see how you'll have to hit a Via or cut/scrape the trace to get anywhere with this thing, and the fact they're all grouped close together right where the rubber pad for the button contacts are makes it even more of a mess when you'd go trying to put it all back together with wires soldered to those Vias. The other side of the board is worse, where most of the other buttons traces run thru a Via then straight to the IC and nothing is really in an easy place to get to, pics of that when I get around to it and I'll be updating this one as well with the rest once I've got some time to finish it up.

IPB Image

TP1 - B+ (PnC Pack and AA Pack)
TP2 - Ground


TP8 - Analog Voltage, 1.5v
TP9 - DR
TP10 - Light Rumble
TP11 - Heavy Rumble
TP21 - USB D+ (PnC Cable)
TP22 - Ground
TP23 - USB D- (PnC Cable)
TP400 - Ground
TP407 - Ground


For anyone wanting to make an arcade board from it and be cheesy enough to just scrape the button contacts down it's an easy enough board to work with, but for adding another button here or there or doing some of the things I've done on the old Wireless version, this controller really bites, but not enough to keep me from figuring out how anyway. wink.gif

I'd wager this thing costs half as much to make opposed to the older version board too, this thing really does have around half as many parts on it and looks like some third party controller raped a first party M$ one.

Edited by RDC, 26 January 2010 - 07:32 PM.


#14 YUNG ERIC

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 08:02 AM

it does look like scince there are less components It would be easier to cut this board and make a wireless fatty. I may have to do that.

unfortunately I'm in the middle of bioshock, then I've got halo 3 + endless hours of multiplayer + assassin's creed and I've got to find time to actually go to work.

where would I find the time. sad.gif

Edited by YUNG ERIC, 31 August 2007 - 08:03 AM.


#15 RDC

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 01:35 AM

Here's the bottom of the board with RSC, LSC, LT and RT traced out, will get to the rest later. You can see from looking at both the top and bottom that A, B, X, Y and start (probably a few others I haven't gotten to yet also) go right thru a Via and under the IC, so on the top of the board is about the only place you'll be able to do anything with those buttons, aside from the actual legs of the IC once I map them out, but even then that's only really good for adding a duplicate button and for someone that can solder very well.

IPB Image

Edited by RDC, 03 February 2013 - 09:45 AM.





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