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UK: Mr. Modchips Gets Convicted


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#46 Blackbolt

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 11:22 PM

The guy knew what he was getting into, so I have no sympathy for him. But it does piss me off no end that the health service is struggling, troops are dieing nearly daily in Iraq, murders are running free, gangs ruling our streets and this is what our government and authorities are busy doing, persuing a single induvidual that hasn't actually effected a single human life wrongly. Oh noes, Nintendo have a few less million in their billion dollar bank accounts, lets sue someone!

#47 throwingks

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE(RoboChicken @ Oct 25 2007, 06:57 PM) View Post
That's not a modchip, it's a DS flashcart. They were selling that in a Walmart in southern Cali. I bought one and it's total CRAP. It doesn't play DS games at ALL. Wasted $30 on it. It comes with some cheapo disc with shitty homebrew games and a media converter.

It is a device the circumvents copy protection. As I mentioned, it can run homebrew which emulates NES, SNES, GB, etc.

#48 SNAAAKE

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:18 AM

thought it was somewhat "legal" in the UK and canada ?



#49 buttface96

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:22 AM

QUOTE(Bubbalynch @ Oct 25 2007, 10:38 AM) View Post

The closest thing I've used to a "chip" is buying my VIA card, but that isnt a modchip and I'm not soldering it to my console.


Hmm well if you live in the US, then you ARE a crimminal under the DMCA. Having that card CAN be used to reflash an xbox 360 firmware to be able to bypass copyright protection, look at the DMCA

QUOTE
No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that . . . is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof.


The DMCA is so vague, anything can be challenged against it.

#50 RoboChicken

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:26 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Oct 25 2007, 04:29 PM) View Post

It is a device the circumvents copy protection. As I mentioned, it can run homebrew which emulates NES, SNES, GB, etc.


That's true, It actually even says it on the package from what I can remember. With most of the old school stuff being re-released on Wii, I'm sure Nintendo is taking notice. I recall "ROMS" and "Emulators" being on a search warrant in a recent raid. I can't believe they're looking for that stuff too - that puts CPX3, and the other ton of Emus out there in a bad light.

#51 mirko

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:28 AM

this is ridiculous, sums the uk legal system up...

i got stabbed 2 years ago + police didnt even respond, then they bust a guy for modding consoles, is a complete joke, can't wait til i make my million + sod off to live in brasil or something lol

#52 RoboChicken

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 12:39 AM

QUOTE(buttface96 @ Oct 25 2007, 04:58 PM) View Post

Hmm well if you live in the US, then you ARE a crimminal under the DMCA. Having that card CAN be used to reflash an xbox 360 firmware to be able to bypass copyright protection, look at the DMCA
The DMCA is so vague, anything can be challenged against it.


"primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection"

A VIA SATA PCI card is not designed [primarily] for circumventing protection. It's primarily designed to connect SATA devices to your PC. A modchip, they can argue. Plus if you've got your VIA card to do repairs and key swap/reflashes for the purposes of repair, you are in the clear.

The word "Service" is where I think everyone can get tripped up on. I think the argument here is that the service you provide is enabling homebrew and the intention is not to circumvent the copy protection. Even though it is a side effect, its not your primary purpose. Such as if someone purchased a gun, the sellers purpose is not murder. Shooting ranges - their primary purpose is not murder. That places the responsibility with the consumer of the product or service as it should be.

Edited by RoboChicken, 26 October 2007 - 12:41 AM.


#53 Gash

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 01:42 AM

QUOTE(RoboChicken @ Oct 26 2007, 01:15 AM) View Post

"primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection"

A VIA SATA PCI card is not designed [primarily] for circumventing protection. It's primarily designed to connect SATA devices to your PC. A modchip, they can argue. Plus if you've got your VIA card to do repairs and key swap/reflashes for the purposes of repair, you are in the clear.

The word "Service" is where I think everyone can get tripped up on. I think the argument here is that the service you provide is enabling homebrew and the intention is not to circumvent the copy protection. Even though it is a side effect, its not your primary purpose. Such as if someone purchased a gun, the sellers purpose is not murder. Shooting ranges - their primary purpose is not murder. That places the responsibility with the consumer of the product or service as it should be.



I agree with what you're saying. So how would we determine the primarily designed purpose? Would the creators of the chip have to say "designed to allow customers to play legal backed up copies of games?" And if so, would that hold up in court? Even if it doesn't, I still believe the consumer has to be the one to point the finger at, not the developer/distributor. Hell, even if you install the mod chip in the Xbox and then sell it (like you could easily do on eBay or Craigslist) you're not telling your customers to use it to play illegally obtained games on it, you're just giving them a gaming console with a device that has a predetermined purpose, to play backed up games. It's up to the consumer to go out and search for games to download, just like it's up to them to stay legal and only play backed up games that they own.

#54 Bubbalynch

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 03:32 AM

QUOTE(buttface96 @ Oct 26 2007, 12:58 AM) View Post

Hmm well if you live in the US, then you ARE a crimminal under the DMCA. Having that card CAN be used to reflash an xbox 360 firmware to be able to bypass copyright protection, look at the DMCA
The DMCA is so vague, anything can be challenged against it.


The VIA card was not created for the soul purpose of Flashing your 360. So that little reference of yours holds no water in regards to VIA cards.

Just because I can take a TV set and bash it over your head, causing your death or severe brain damage, doesn't mean owning a TV set is illegal and considered a weapon unsuitable to the mass's.

Why? because that product was ORIGINALLY created to watch Television on. Not commit a crime.


#55 RoboChicken

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 04:04 AM

QUOTE(Gash @ Oct 25 2007, 06:18 PM) View Post

I agree with what you're saying. So how would we determine the primarily designed purpose? Would the creators of the chip have to say "designed to allow customers to play legal backed up copies of games?" And if so, would that hold up in court? Even if it doesn't, I still believe the consumer has to be the one to point the finger at, not the developer/distributor. Hell, even if you install the mod chip in the Xbox and then sell it (like you could easily do on eBay or Craigslist) you're not telling your customers to use it to play illegally obtained games on it, you're just giving them a gaming console with a device that has a predetermined purpose, to play backed up games. It's up to the consumer to go out and search for games to download, just like it's up to them to stay legal and only play backed up games that they own.


In regards to premods, here is something that can be argued (found this on google answers):

"In many countries it is necessary for manufacturers to place recognised standards compliance marking on products. Any company or individual that modifies such products is at risk of severe penalties in law, especially if the product no longer complies with mandatory standards and causes a problem such as an electrical shock or catches fire. Regarding EMC (electromagnetic compatability), modifications may cause
a product to produce excessive levels of interference that may disrupt vital communications or cause nearby equipment to malfunction or interfere with TV reception."

Personally, I've never found this to be the case with ANY type of mod. But there are reports of certain modchips and even TSOP flashing adding unecessary load to an Xbox which from what I read was hotly debated a few years ago. Aside from that, what about the standards compliance markings? I'm pretty sure no one selling a premod has thought about staying within those standards.

In regards to backups, read this:

http://www.copyright...2chap1.html#117

Now if you're providing a 'backup' service, don't even bother reading it cause you're already screwed. The thing is you don't ever hear about Joe Schmoe getting in trouble for backing up one of his games. In fact, I just fixed a guys drive who's Halo 3 got stuck in his 360 drive and the thing wouldn't close. The reason it fell in was because the disc had two cracks on the inner circle. So now, since his box can't read backups, he needs to go pay another $60 for a game that he ALREADY paid for. This shit really happens.

Edited by RoboChicken, 26 October 2007 - 04:10 AM.


#56 jonlane

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 07:52 AM

If anyone deserves it, it's this guy. His idea of customer support was: if you complain, I'm going to disable your account and block your email address. i can't understand why he's still an official partner of so many modchip makers. I hope he gets a big fine and can't get back into business.

#57 wraper

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 09:28 AM

...

Edited by wraper, 26 October 2007 - 09:32 AM.


#58 RichMR2

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE(clogicgmather @ Oct 25 2007, 06:31 PM) View Post

I second that, this guy gave truly awful service, just checkout the complaint thread in the bst section of xs forums to see quite how many people have been treated badly by him. There were so many reasons why this guy should have gone down, just a shame they didn't get him on a real crime.

Good Riddance.

I didn't realise there was a complaints thread, I thought I was alone when I had problems with him.

I'm only concerned about this because some of the decent people I have used may be next...

QUOTE(SNAAAKE @ Oct 26 2007, 12:54 AM) View Post

thought it was somewhat "legal" in the UK and canada ?


A new law was past last year (or maybe the year before that... time flys now I'm old) which made modchips illegal in the UK, or something like that.

As far as I know Australia have it good, it is illegal to stop people having a means of backing up or something. I'm not too hot on the laws I just know that pre-modded consoles are hard to come by for the average joe over here in the UK.

#59 adamscybot

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 11:07 AM

Fantastic news!

This guy is well known to be the class prick of the business.

#60 crisdo98

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 11:29 AM

I've used this guy a tonne of times and the turn around time was always next day or the day after. He has always been a little bit expensive for my liking but the fact that mrmodchips is the only UK site that is game enough to blatantly disregard the law here made up for the excessive pricing.

At the end of the day if he was only offering the chips then fine but the Metro here states that they raided his home in Bristol where he lived in his parents basement. They confiscated 17 premodded consoles, 3700 chips and I'm sure he had illegal software, games and probably even ceased his bank account.

Anyway this guys deserves to be punished for being stupid. He obviously tried the ol' "my business is run in Thailand and this website is based outside the UK" however it doesn't take a genius to work out that this was an operation run in the UK.

I too offer a chipping service which I know is illegal however this is all i offer. I don't premod consoles, i don't sell games or modchips. The reason for this is not to be too greedy and hopefully the authorities wouldn't even think about small fish such as myself.

Anyway I'd feel bad if this guy did do time but that is the risk you take. Unfortunatley there will most likely be an example set with this guy.

I see his legal team is to appeal against the ruling but he does not have a leg to stand on givin the evidence.

Moral to the story... don't drop the soap!

Edited by crisdo98, 26 October 2007 - 11:43 AM.





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