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Lobbying group believes gamers need exceptions to DMCA


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#1 Xbox-Scene

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:13 AM

Lobbying group believes gamers need exceptions to DMCA
Posted by XanTium | October 29 19:13 EST | News Category: Xbox360
 
From arstechnica.com:


Are gamers affected by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act? The Entertainment Consumers Association argues that they are. The group has just announced its support for the FAIR USE Act in an attempt to make the world safe for democracy backing up game discs.

The ECA is a relative newcomer to the political scene. Founded in 2006, it's a nonprofit that wants to represent gamers in a way that the Entertainment Software Association can't. The ESA, despite having the resources to battle bad video game legislation across the country, looks out for the interests of the game developers and publishers.

The Act is a watered-down version of the Digital Media Consumers' Rights Act, which Boucher and Doolittle have been pushing for years without success. The idea was that circumvention of copy controls would be legal so long as the intended use of the material was legal. In the FAIR USE Act, though, the actual exceptions proved much more narrow and did not include this broad immunity.
The upshot is that the FAIR USE Act is good for hardware manufacturers, but only moderately good for consumers.


Full Story: arstechnica.com






#2 MysticalMagnet

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:26 AM

sounds like someone is trying to work in the gamers favor and hopefully this leads to the legality of installing modchips which would be cool

#3 pirichios

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:49 AM

fair use and homebrew for the win! smile.gif
Its about time the DMCA should be looked at for revisions

#4 Hopeful

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 02:40 AM

QUOTE(pirichios @ Oct 30 2007, 02:25 AM) View Post

fair use and homebrew for the win! smile.gif
Its about time the DMCA should be looked at for revisions

So true

Even if "copyright" weren't a proposterous and unrightful idea to enforce upon people

Its current invasiveness needs to be cut down a LOT

Edited by Hopeful, 30 October 2007 - 02:42 AM.


#5 g8crapachino

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:46 AM

Let's be realistic and stop being so one-sided. If fair use, homebrew, and backups of personal property was all people were really interested in then the DMCA and ECA wounld't even be necessary. But, so long as games are available for download and thousands of people trading, copying, and selling games that they never actually own the odds of the ECA succeeding are next to nothing. Every moron who brags in a forum about "owning" dozens of backups only hurts the situation. Call them pirates or whatever but so long as those people exist everyone will have to deal with copy protection and copyrights.






#6 pirichios

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:36 AM

QUOTE(g8crapachino @ Oct 30 2007, 06:22 AM) View Post

Let's be realistic and stop being so one-sided. If fair use, homebrew, and backups of personal property was all people were really interested in then the DMCA and ECA wounld't even be necessary. But, so long as games are available for download and thousands of people trading, copying, and selling games that they never actually own the odds of the ECA succeeding are next to nothing. Every moron who brags in a forum about "owning" dozens of backups only hurts the situation. Call them pirates or whatever but so long as those people exist everyone will have to deal with copy protection and copyrights.

that is true, but i dont believe that people that strive for what is fair should be punished by the actions of those who dont respect copyrights.

Edited by pirichios, 30 October 2007 - 05:37 AM.


#7 Hopeful

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:13 AM

Actually if I can go on a tangent for a second here, to support my point, I don't even think copyright laws can be truly justified... Which makes the idea of outlawing modchips even more ludicrous, since they never technically break copyright anyway, unless the user combines their own "illegal software." (Which is another oxymoron in my opinion, but I won't go off on that.)

The very idea that you can slap a legal sticker on something you design and build

telling others they're not allowed to craft themselves a duplicate of the same design, is ludicrous anyway

and seems like something people have no right to dictate

and seems no far stretch from being able to get a license telling folks they can't legally copy the way you breathe or build arts and crafts

just because you worked hard on something and can potentially make money off it, doesn't mean you have a right to fence it off and be the only one who can re-create it

sole sales rights I can understand, since it's just a license to scramble for legal tender which belongs to the gov't anyway. But that doesn't mean people should HAVE to buy it to recreate it. Just that the inventer can be the only one to TRY selling it.

Copyright itself though, just seems like authority masturbation, for the mere sake of entertainment industry wealth and health

And, even though it feeds the industry and keeps us rolling in available games to choose from

personally, the pleasure can never blind me to see it as right or acceptable

***
***
***

But, even within those boundaries there is a legal use for backups

We don't have to pretend anyone has the right to "outlaw" products that never actually "break copyright", just because someone can POTENTIALLY break copyright if they COMBINE their own "illegal software" with it

Which is like banning cigarette rolling papers because they CAN be combined with dope.

Personally, I'm rooting for these guys.

Edited by Hopeful, 30 October 2007 - 07:20 AM.


#8 SueMiBlitch

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:18 AM

installing mod chips should be legal... if then they get banned off Live is fine because it can't be guaranteeded the games were legaly bought

if u bought a game you should be able to make copies for your personal use (ie. a backup) - its 60 bucks for a game and one scratch screws you over

people who sell burnt games should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law because they are using someones elses hard work to make money without compensation to the author

#9 Jstraw

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:40 PM

sleep.gif DCMA is a laymen terms for milking the consumer wallet. As a consumer, we are the ones who pay for all these laws and restrictions through inflated costs. If the media industry was all that concerned about copy protection than there would be different ways of distributing material to the consumer that ensure limited copying ability as well as a product that is physically stronger and able to handle abuse. What we don't realize, THERE IS A MARKET FOR EXPENDABLE ITEMS! that greatly increases profit and can sometimes double or triple a profit margin.

Why do you think we have format wars every couple of years?
My answer is, so we, as a consumer, have multiple copies of items that do the same thing.

Think about the evolution of gaming consoles, from expensive cartridges to cheap laser disc media.

Think about why media is so cheap now.

Until consumers realize there is a market for disposable product (the WalMart factor) then we will continue to pay for invisible product like DCMA, which is just words on paper. cool.gif

Edited by Jstraw, 30 October 2007 - 12:41 PM.


#10 1nsan3

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:47 PM

I dont mind the backing up discs and using modchips, but oncepeople use these mods to cheat online thats where the shit should stop.

#11 alexh

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:48 PM

QUOTE(Jstraw @ Oct 30 2007, 01:16 PM) View Post

Think about the evolution of gaming consoles, from expensive cartridges to cheap laser disc media.

Think about the evolution of gaming consoles, from cheap games in months with 4 people paid just above minimum wage to expensive games which take years to develop, hundreds of people paid high salaries.

As the price of media came down, and the price of games went up (above inflation), the budget of the games production went up as much as 10x.

If your game is not a hit these days, you can almost guarantee you loose money on it. It's the one hit game every few years which pays for the flops.

As for backups, lots of companies are offering replacement media for $10 including shipping. There is no need for backups if there is a lifetime guarantee on your media.

If you still want modchips and backups with a "lifetime" guarantee on original game media, you gotta be no more than a common thief!

All those complaining about DMCA/modchips for "backups" are just upset that they cant get something for nothing without a risk any more, boo hoo. If you want to steal something, go ahead, use any self justification you like, you wont be the first and certainly not the last, but please dont get all righteous on us wink.gif

Homebrew is something else, I do feel that they should offer some outlet for homebrew. Without it, it stifles a generations creativity. Imagine where the games industry would be now without homebrew on the Amiga, C64 and Spectrum etc.

Edited by alexh, 30 October 2007 - 12:58 PM.


#12 Jstraw

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:04 PM

Well then why quit making hard to reproduce cartridges? If xbox makes cartridges in their factory then cost would be low for them to produce and high for any third party thus making it too expensive for the pirate market. But they didn't! and we are paying for it.

Modchips would then only be for homebrew which would be legal.

Boohoo for ppl like you who don't realize DCMA isn't for copy protection it is for inflation. Digital pirating is the opposite of DCMA which is the result of greed.

Give the ppl a secure product and warrenty at a fair price, there is no need for pirating and DCMA! pop.gif

#13 alexh

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:48 PM

QUOTE(Jstraw @ Oct 30 2007, 01:40 PM) View Post

Well then why quit making hard to reproduce cartridges?

Money. CD-ROM drives came down in price to a point where the CD-Drive wasnt a significant part of the BOM of the console. The media was much cheaper and the capacity 100x more.

They werent that hard to reproduce anyhow, SuperMagicom anyone?

QUOTE
Modchips would then only be for homebrew which would be legal.

If modchips were only for homebrew, they probably would never get made due to lack of demand and no incentive (profit) for the creators/manufacturers.

QUOTE
Boohoo for ppl like you who don't realize DCMA isn't for copy protection it is for inflation. Digital pirating is the opposite of DCMA which is the result of greed.

They make it, they set the price, you pay for it, or do with out. Simple as that.

QUOTE
Give the ppl a secure product and warranty at a fair price, there is no need for pirating and DCMA! pop.gif

Agreed, but it is you and I and those around us, and their willingness (or lack of it) to part with their hard earned cash which sets the prices (and the budgets of todays games).

Plus it's never about the price, it's always about getting something for nothing! Back when games were $1.99 each you still had people trying to steal them. Twin-deck tape machines anyone?

Edited by alexh, 30 October 2007 - 01:59 PM.


#14 lostboyz

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 02:40 PM

more people want homebrew then you think

#15 Martinchris23

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE(alexh @ Oct 30 2007, 01:24 PM) View Post

As for backups, lots of companies are offering replacement media for $10 including shipping. There is no need for backups if there is a lifetime guarantee on your media.


Of course there is - why should you be forced to pay for a replacement copy of the game? Is it your fault the game is presented on a medium prone to damage through scratches, heat, cold, etc? Why penalise the consumer with this fee?

My opinion is, either let people make a backup of the games they OWN or offer lifetime free replacements of the media. It costs pennies to press a disk and ship it out. At $10 (in the UK they want $20) they are still making money out of the medium failure - is this fair?





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