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My Intrest In Xdk


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#1 korn_16_f_t_l

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 05:53 AM

im interested in developing some kind of xbox game ( my personal dream is to develop games in general )
but i have no clue how to get started so ill list my xbox version and such and maybe some of you can help me get my ideas and dreams off the ground

i am working w/ an xbox v.1.6b soft modded with Krayzie_007_UXE_Installer_Dutch-English_v2.8 from #xbins

i have been skimming http://www.xboxscene...s/debug-xdk.php and have been trying to learn what all this involves i am a little hazey on some things tho not i said i skimmed

my knolage of programming is also limmited as i have only played around with VB i also found a good XDK tutorial at another site ( http://www.xbdev.net/tuts/tuts.php )

i do posses a copy of XDK that i downloaded via torrent but the .nfo says dont use these files unless u know what u are doing (aka me)

so my primary question is where and how do i get started and how do i get this right the first time w/ out bricking an xbox?

also note that the xbox i intend to use will EVENTUALLY be a chipped console when my budget allows it ( X3 CE if this info is needed )

Edited by old engineer, 22 December 2007 - 04:18 PM.


#2 obcd

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 10:58 AM

Hi,

a xbox SDK has 2 parts. One part of it integrates with Visual Studio 2003 and makes it possible to develop xbox programs with that package. The other part is the xbox debug dash on the xbox itself. The CD with that part reflashes the xbox with a debug bios and alters the xbox eeprom. It also installs the debug dashboard files on your xbox harddisk.

A 1.6 and 1.6b xbox can't be reflashed. The eeprom contents can still be changed. As a result, the xbox won't boot anymore.

Part 1 of the sdk contains libraries with functions that you can use in your program. This material is copyrighted by microsoft. For that reason, you are not allowed to distribute a homebrew program that uses those sdk libraries.

For that reason, people started to develop the opensdk. That sdk also contains libraries with functions, but they don't use microsoft copyrighted material. They use compiler and build tools that can be downloaded from the internet for free.

So, to get started with the microsoft xdk, you will need Visual Studio, preferable Visual Studio 2003. The pc site of it will refuse to install if it doesn't find that on your Pc.

Than you can locate the debug dashboard for your xbox. I haven't found a good tutorial about how to install that yet. Most stuff is rather old, and things can be done easier. I might write one myself some day.

If you wan't to use the opensdk, you should be able to find a lot of usefull information in this threat. Also look at the pbkit.

Do not underestimate game development. Commercial games are written by teams who work several months on one game. You can port excisting old games and emulators to the xbox platform, if the source is available and if they aren't ported already. (If you have a lot of patience and are ready for a big challenge.)

regards.

#3 korn_16_f_t_l

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 04:56 AM

QUOTE(obcd @ Nov 29 2007, 11:34 AM) View Post



A 1.6 and 1.6b xbox can't be reflashed. The eeprom contents can still be changed. As a result, the xbox won't boot anymore.

so its time to buy a couple new mother boards from the almighty llama (less there is some where cheaper and still in the us).

Is there ABSOLUTLY NO WAY to use a version 1.6 or 1.6 b to make such a development xbox?

the files you are talking about must be the ones i have titled:
XDKRecovery5933External.exe and XDKSetup5933.exe and im assuming the so called recover is the recovery disc you are talking about?

QUOTE

Part 1 of the sdk contains libraries with functions that you can use in your program. This material is copyrighted by microsoft. For that reason, you are not allowed to distribute a homebrew program that uses those sdk libraries.


im assuming that by saying the SDK you are talking about the program i install on my computer?

QUOTE

For that reason, people started to develop the opensdk. That sdk also contains libraries with functions, but they don't use microsoft copyrighted material. They use compiler and build tools that can be downloaded from the internet for free.


how can that be possible tho?
are the libraries based from the MS libraries or somthing?
i would like to read more about these tools like where can i find then (#xbins no doubt).
where can i read maybe a detailed description of them there functions and how to use them?

QUOTE

So, to get started with the microsoft xdk, you will need Visual Studio, preferable Visual Studio 2003. The pc site of it will refuse to install if it doesn't find that on your Pc.


meaning if i dont have visual studio than i cant install the xbox xdk to the pc correct?

QUOTE
Than you can locate the debug dashboard for your xbox. I haven't found a good tutorial about how to install that yet. Most stuff is rather old, and things can be done easier. I might write one myself some day.


do it i encourage it and when you do get as detailed and plain words as possible for people like me so thay have a good idea of what thay are getting into befroe thay do it.

QUOTE
If you wan't to use the opensdk, you should be able to find a lot of usefull information in this threat. Also look at the pbkit.


pbkit is this a thread as well or somthing to download?
what is the diffrence between XDK and SDK aside from legality? Wich one is simpler for a noob to use and so on information like that would be great.
wich one is your prefferance and why if i may ask. Obviously you have had experiance with both XDK and SDK so i would like to know some of your experiances if you would be willing to share them.

QUOTE
Do not underestimate game development. Commercial games are written by teams who work several months on one game. You can port excisting old games and emulators to the xbox platform, if the source is available and if they aren't ported already. (If you have a lot of patience and are ready for a big challenge.)


i understand that much of it but i was thinking along the lines of developing a "retail" style game as soon as i get some of the experiance needed under my belt.

i have this hunger for a game that is just so diffrent somthing that has never been done (not shure what it is or like yet tho lol).

most games now a days are just knock offs slightly tweaked in the creators own way like guitar hero is to amplitude or grand theft auto is to saints row, or just sequiled to death like resident evil or grand theft auto

its time for somthing new guys and i want to be the one to come up with it..

ya this Objective is somthing i plan to have in the making for several years so i am having plenty of paitence with it.

As far as the ports suggestion go's there are 2 games i would love to put to put on the xbox warcraft III along with Starcraft but i dunno if the source is availible.

is there a list of games some where that have the source availibe?

i know quake and doom and things like that have the source availible.
but ya enought rambeling thanks for your therough response sorry if it seems like i picked it apart i just wanted a little bit more elaberation on it is all

KUDOS TO U

#4 Maturion

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 07:59 PM

QUOTE
Part 1 of the sdk contains libraries with functions that you can use in your program. This material is copyrighted by microsoft. For that reason, you are not allowed to distribute a homebrew program that uses those sdk libraries.


Xbins. dry.gif

OpenXDK is the fully legal choice but it requires a bit more knowledge since there's no real documentation for it and there are only a few examples. The OpenXDK doc at XBDev is horribly outdated.

Links, Help, etc for OpenXDK

OpenXDK available here

OpenXDK doesn't require Visual Studio or any other commercial software.

I think you got the XDK debug dashboard, not the "real" XDK.

QUOTE
meaning if i dont have visual studio than i cant install the xbox xdk to the pc correct?

Yes. You need Visual Studio 2003.

QUOTE
is there a list of games some where that have the source availibe?


I have never looked into its source but I'd love to see a port of Battle of Wesnoth. It's an opensource strategy game.


#5 korn_16_f_t_l

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 06:23 AM

QUOTE(Maturion @ Nov 30 2007, 08:35 PM) View Post



I think you got the XDK debug dashboard, not the "real" XDK.




how can u tell and what is the diffrence between the debug dash and the "real" XDK ?

#6 obcd

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:34 PM

Hi,

the Microsoft xdk or xbox sdk (wathever you want to call it) has 2 parts. One part is installed on the pc and integrates with the visual studio 2003 development suite. The other part is basically an iso you should burn on a cdrw or dvd. When you insert that cdrw or dvd in your xbox, it will install the debug dashboard on your xbox. I assume you needed a debug xbox for that. Those boxes had 128MB of memory instead of the usual 64MB and the Tsop flash chip could be reflashed. There also exists a development xbox. That one has an additional board connected to the xbox LPC bus so that the xbox has a serial debug port. It also has a scsi like connector that connects the xbox to a dedicated pc pci board. This combination makes it possible to do dvd emulation on the pc. You can test a game from the pc harddisk, and the xbox will think that it runs from a disk.

So, if you burn the disk and run it in your xbox, it will wipe your xbox eeprom contents and try to flash your xbox tsop. I think it will also format your xbox harddisk and put the debug dashboard files on it.

That disk is also called the sdk recovery disk. If you mess up your debug xbox, it returns it to a sort of factory state.

Don't try such a disk on your xbox. You will probably need to reprogram it's eeprom afterwards. You will also need to remake it's harddisk.

Some xdk packages that travel around on the internet come with the files that are installed on the xbox c and e partition. You can simply ftp them over to your xbox, and you have the debug dashboard on it.

The debug dashboard however requires a debug bios. There are some BFM (boot from memory) biosses available on the usual place. You can use the PBL (phoenix bios loader) to load such a bios. If it finds the debug dashboard files, it will load the debug dashboard.

You can develop programs without the debug dashboard. In such a situation, you compile your sources and ftp them to your xbox where you can run them. The debug dashboard makes development easier. You can place a breakpoint in your program, and you can step trough your code.

So, to resume:

The PBL loads a debug bios into memory, so you don't need to reflash your xbox tsop chip.

You will need the debug dashboard files on your C and E partition. They can be on it together with the original dashboard files and the softmod files.

You will need:

Visual Studio 2003 (Someone with an msdn subscription can download that from the microsoft website)
A pc xdk setup.
The Phoenix Bios Loader
A BFM debug bios.
The debug dashboard xbox C and E partition files.

regards.

#7 korn_16_f_t_l

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 05:52 AM

so i can do this with a 1.6 i just need to do it diffrently cuz my TSOP can not be flashed if i am following correctly and the pheonix bios loader will load the xdk either TSOP or BIOS or both or what ever


if this isent correct please tell me what i seem to be missunderstanding

#8 Libtoem

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:10 AM

Why don't you just buy a Debug Kit,there pretty cheap now.

#9 obcd

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 10:30 AM

Hi,

Tsop refers to the chip on the xbox motherboard that contains the bios code. When the xbox boots, the bios code is copied from that chip to the xbox ram memory. The Phoenix Bios Loader takes a bios image from the harddisk and loads that into the xbox ram memory. A modchip has one or more flash banks that can contain a different bios version. When the modchip is enabled, the xbox loads it's bios from one of those modchip flash banks instead of from the original Tsop chip.

Your xbox needs to be modded if you wan't to run the phoenix bios loader. The program was used before to perform a softmod as it can alter the bios that runs on your xbox. Most softmods nowadays use the nkpatcher that alters the bios in the ram. This has the advantage that the bios can be brought back to it's original state, which is usefull for people that use the xbox live service.

Sometimes, people also speak of the xbox kernel version. The kernel is the same as the bios.


regards.

#10 korn_16_f_t_l

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 10:50 AM

QUOTE(Libtoem @ Dec 7 2007, 06:28 AM) View Post

Why don't you just buy a Debug Kit,there pretty cheap now.



cheap meaning what? looking to invest less than $150 into an XDK kit if this is the route is taken as my funds are limmited

Edited by korn_16_f_t_l, 28 December 2007 - 10:55 AM.


#11 korn_16_f_t_l

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE(obcd @ Dec 7 2007, 07:46 AM) View Post

Hi,

Tsop refers to the chip on the xbox motherboard that contains the bios code. When the xbox boots, the bios code is copied from that chip to the xbox ram memory. The Phoenix Bios Loader takes a bios image from the harddisk and loads that into the xbox ram memory. A modchip has one or more flash banks that can contain a different bios version. When the modchip is enabled, the xbox loads it's bios from one of those modchip flash banks instead of from the original Tsop chip.

Your xbox needs to be modded if you wan't to run the phoenix bios loader. The program was used before to perform a softmod as it can alter the bios that runs on your xbox. Most softmods nowadays use the nkpatcher that alters the bios in the ram. This has the advantage that the bios can be brought back to it's original state, which is usefull for people that use the xbox live service.

Sometimes, people also speak of the xbox kernel version. The kernel is the same as the bios.


regards.



ok im kinda following you here so XDK the real deal on a 1.6 is or is not possible on a chipped xbox 1.6?

im already planning on switchingfor one of my xbox's to a 1.0 just for running linux (got a project goin PM me for details if u want to know as it is off topic of this thread) and if im going to invest the $$ in on xbox i may as well do it for another least that is my logic lol want to do a few other things as well but for now my xbox mods as far as hardware are my top priority

#12 obcd

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 10:15 AM

Hi,

it should also be possible on a 1.6 to install the debug dashboard.
I have never done it myself, but someone else confirmed me that he got it working.

I don't have a 1.6, so I can't try it out.

regards.




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