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Sony Patents Emotion Engine Emulation Technology For Cell Processors


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#1 PS3Scene

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 03:02 AM

Sony Patents Emotion Engine Emulation Technology For Cell Processors
Posted by XanTium | 1-7-2009 22:02 EST

 
From siliconera.com:


PlayStation 3s without PS2 backwards compatibility are missing the Emotion Engine, a chip Sony designed as the PS2's CPU. What if the PS3's cell processor could emulate the Emotion Engine? Theoretically, all PlayStation 3s would be able to play PS2 games even if a console didn't have the proper hardware. According to a recent patent filed by Sony Computer Entertainment in the US, Sony has the code and technology ready to do this.

There are two main ways to emulate hardware. Interpretation is when target code is decoded and converted into a language the host can understand. The other strategy is to decode and recompile programs in the host's language.

Maybe the concept is better explained another way. Interpretation is like having someone constantly translating English to Japanese for you, non stop, twenty four hours a day wherever you go. Decoding and recompiling is like someone translating a sets of words and putting them in a dictionary you can reference.


Full Story: siliconera.com






#2 d-range

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:21 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony can do that, they know everything about the playstation hardware, and the PS3 should be easily capable of emulating a PS2. In fact, I'm surprised Sony didn't add all-software BC to the PS3 after they ditched the emotion engine hardware from it.

Since they didn't add it at that point, my guess is now that Sony won't release software-BC at all, at least not like it was in the early models. They might have a great software emulator, but only use it to offer PS2 games for download from PSN, which would make sense since they would actually be making money off the PS2 titles, which they don't if people play PS2 titles from discs they bought on the 2nd-hand market

Edited by d-range, 04 July 2009 - 11:22 AM.


#3 Kamasutra318

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 02:50 AM

Let's hope that's not the case, d-range. If Sony was that greedy for money and willing to screw their customers, they would have removed PS1 disc compatibility also. Perhaps this was a technical and resource issue (with the GS). It does seem likely that they will be releasing PS2 titles to the PSN, though.

#4 SigmaXIX

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 06:06 PM

As the PSP added PS1 support, the PS3 will add PS2 support.

All those people grabbing 60gb systems will be S.O.L. thinking they will get $500 for a 2006 console in another 6 months.

I'd almost-unequivocally state this is to hype the Slim-edition that WILL be released soon.

Edited by SigmaXIX, 05 July 2009 - 06:07 PM.


#5 Killa Kastro

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jul 4 2009, 09:50 PM) View Post

Let's hope that's not the case, d-range. If Sony was that greedy for money and willing to screw their customers, they would have removed PS1 disc compatibility also. Perhaps this was a technical and resource issue (with the GS). It does seem likely that they will be releasing PS2 titles to the PSN, though.


Not necessarily. PS2 games are tied to the emotion engine and the graphics synthesizer which was costing sony a lot to include that into the motherboard. Then when they were emulating the games they had removed the emotion engine and left the synthesizer. PS1 games aren't really tied to anything rendering was all software based. But this is part of the reason why i don't have a PS2 because of the no BC present. But i do think they are holding it back for PSN releases of PS2 games, if you want to call them greedy fair enough cause at this point in time they need to be because they are operating at a loss so they need to change their business model to recoup from these losses.

#6 SigmaXIX

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 06:57 PM

QUOTE(Killa Kastro @ Jul 5 2009, 06:27 PM) View Post
i do think they are holding it back for PSN releases of PS2 games
I think they will use this for more than downloadable PS2 games. Sony is at the point of mimicking everything Microsoft does. Why would they do all this work and disenfranchise all their hopeful base?

Of course, full PS2 emulation is already close on the PC, so with the proprietary coding and knowledge from Sony, the PS3 should have 0% issues doing this.

#7 HotKnife420

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 07:33 PM

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jul 5 2009, 02:50 AM) View Post

Let's hope that's not the case, d-range. If Sony was that greedy for money and willing to screw their customers, they would have removed PS1 disc compatibility also. Perhaps this was a technical and resource issue (with the GS). It does seem likely that they will be releasing PS2 titles to the PSN, though.


If Sony were being greedy, then when they said 'no more BC' that would've been the end of it. I feel like Sony (especially when considering the PSP) has wanted to bring PS2 BC back to the PS3 via software emu. I believe they just 'shifted focus' while there were still 80GB units floating around, as well as the PS2 still selling well.

Of course, "greed" can be spun however you like. The biggest upset to me was that my Marvel Vs Capcom 2 for xbox won't display right on the 360 (but they claim it's fine); my only options are to either break out the xbox 1 (more trouble than it's worth) or to buy the "Xbox Originals" version through XBL. What I don't understand, is that if they can patch the game or whatever to sell it on XBL, why couldn't they make a minor compatability update supporting that game (as I'm sure there's others that fall into this catagory, as well)?

Anyway, I'm a tad more hopeful with this supposed 'new emulation' tech; I'm hoping that if it does come to fruition, we'll see some hi-res upscaling of PSX/PS2 games (I've been wanting at least a 'bleem-like' res. improvement of PSX games since the DC.... on a console).

#8 Killa Kastro

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:49 AM

QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Jul 5 2009, 02:33 PM) View Post

If Sony were being greedy, then when they said 'no more BC' that would've been the end of it. I feel like Sony (especially when considering the PSP) has wanted to bring PS2 BC back to the PS3 via software emu. I believe they just 'shifted focus' while there were still 80GB units floating around, as well as the PS2 still selling well.

Of course, "greed" can be spun however you like. The biggest upset to me was that my Marvel Vs Capcom 2 for xbox won't display right on the 360 (but they claim it's fine); my only options are to either break out the xbox 1 (more trouble than it's worth) or to buy the "Xbox Originals" version through XBL. What I don't understand, is that if they can patch the game or whatever to sell it on XBL, why couldn't they make a minor compatability update supporting that game (as I'm sure there's others that fall into this catagory, as well)?

Anyway, I'm a tad more hopeful with this supposed 'new emulation' tech; I'm hoping that if it does come to fruition, we'll see some hi-res upscaling of PSX/PS2 games (I've been wanting at least a 'bleem-like' res. improvement of PSX games since the DC.... on a console).


I don't feel that they are greedy I just think they are doing what's in their best interests more than the consumer which im not mad at them from a business standpoint, but, as a consumer im mad because BC was one of their big selling points of what they were going to do for the PS2 owner to help them migrate to the PS3 and still get to enjoy their library. A lot of people say who cares who really wants to go and play PS2 games at this point in time when there are PS3 games out there Sony being one of them. But I happen to be one and there are many others that skipped the PS2 generation want to see what was all the hype about.

#9 d-range

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:54 PM

@Killa Kastro
Agreed. When I first got my PS3 (one of the last 60GB's with full HW BC) it sat almost unused for over a year, except for God of War I/II and MGS. One of the main reasons I bought mine was because I wanted to keep the option to play the big titles from the PS2, and at that time it was about the last chances to get a PS3 that did that. That, and because I really liked the hardware from a software developer view (never really took the time to actually start coding up stuff for it though). Fortunately there's a lot of good PS3 titles out no (which took a pretty damn long if you ask me, over 2 years), but I still wouldn't discount the added value of the BC, lots of people have large libraries of PS2 games or, like you said, missed out on the PS2 altogether and now want to enjoy it after all (like me, I've always been a Nintendo guy until the Wii ruined that).

Edited by d-range, 07 July 2009 - 12:55 PM.


#10 Kamasutra318

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE(Killa Kastro @ Jul 5 2009, 01:27 PM) View Post
Not necessarily. PS2 games are tied to the emotion engine and the graphics synthesizer which was costing sony a lot to include that into the motherboard. Then when they were emulating the games they had removed the emotion engine and left the synthesizer. PS1 games aren't really tied to anything rendering was all software based. But this is part of the reason why i don't have a PS2 because of the no BC present. But i do think they are holding it back for PSN releases of PS2 games, if you want to call them greedy fair enough cause at this point in time they need to be because they are operating at a loss so they need to change their business model to recoup from these losses.
But my point was that they didn't remove that compatibility, thus not forcing people to rebuy PS1 games they already own. Heck, I can even play them on my PSP via Remote Play. Obviously, cutting PS2 compatibility was a cost saving measure, but what d-range described is what I would call greedy. No doubt they have their own best interest in mind as any business, but as I said I would hope that they do not leave out disc-playing ability.

#11 Stylok

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 03:30 PM

I bought the PS3 with the idea that i not only will able to play hd games, develped with the newest technology, but also will able to play all PS games. Unfortunately it was a could shower for me, because my PS3 from europe is not able to play them.

My uncle has a lot PS2 games but i can't play them. Sony has made good progress by adding a harddisk to there system and there new bios and operating system. This trashcan is able to produce more than the original Xbox, i am not sure if it is able to do more than the X360. I still like my modchiped xbox more than the PS3 with the newest technology, which is useless without a modechip.

Edited by Stylok, 02 August 2009 - 03:34 PM.


#12 dangerpaki

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 11:45 AM

So I was a little late in realising what Sony is trying to do. But ot be honest it would be great if Sony brought back BC through software. Really I would definately use that. There are some old games I really want to play again. You know those games that are just so cool. So let's hope Sony brings this to the console very soon. I do hope that they do not mimick MS and sell old games again over PSN, because that would be truly a shame. We all know MS is just behind us for the money, Sony has had a different approach in the past and I do hope they keep to that approach and do not turn greedy. Let's be honest, with the Slim arriving now and the PS2 hitting end of life, people would really buy the PS3 if it had BC.

#13 Nosf3ratu

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 03:06 AM

I'd pay for that feature. I think it should be a download on the PSN. $50 to me sounds fair, I'd definitely pay that. Not only would Sony benefit from the money but also the good PR from the community if it worked out right. Plus, that way the people that don't really care for backwards compatibility won't pay the premium, but at any time they could if they decided they want to fire up some Z.O.E. or God of War. BUT, in my opinion they aren't going to implement this until PS2 hardware sales finally dry up somewhere around 2025 laugh.gif . Seriously though, they aren't going to do this until that point because if they do it for free its saying, "buy a PS3 get a free PS2!" Essentially that was one selling point of the 1st gen PS3 marketing scheme was except for the invisible "while supplies last" that was stamped on every box. So IF PS2 sales decline anytime soon you'll probably see this feature, lets not forget that money is the deciding factor.

#14 LockandLoad12gauge

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 03:29 PM

THIS IS JUST CRAZY TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#15 delukard

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:05 AM

i used to have a ntsc 60gb ps3(sold it on dec 08). and TBH only played mgs4 and mgs2(again) mgs (again also)on it.
then after 7 months of not using it, a friend told me that he would give me 400 us for it and i said no, i asked him for 550us.
he said to me i could buy a a brand new ps3 with that on walmart and i said then buy it GL playing your old games on that.(i wasn't even selling my ps3 at that time).
3 months latter a person asked me if i would sell him the ps3 and i asked him for 550 us.
I showed him how he could play MGS(psx) MGS2(ps2) MG snake eater(ps2) and MGS4(ps3)
and after seeing that he bought the ps3.

To some people backwards comp is really important (it is to me) and IMHO the 60gb ps3 is the best of all the ps3's, besides i think that the 60gb model is the one that is closer to the one that kutaragi had in mind, the other models are just changes that sony had to made because of all the money they were loosing.

BTW can someone correct me on this please.
If the 60gb model has the cpu(emotion engine) and the gpu and it's only emulating the sound, wouldn't a non 60gb ps3 be more stressed when playing a ps2 game because it's emulating everything and because of that probably accelerating it's dead?





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