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Pc-engine Resolution In Mednafenx (720p)


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#1 flavor

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 04:58 PM

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A while back a came accross this resolution chart which is really helpful, and kudos to the xbox-scene member who took the time to create it, but it never quite worked out for me on MednafenX Pc-Engine.

768*696 gave me an overall OK picture with nearly no scaling artefacts, but there was an area on screen, somewhere in the middle, where pixels were unstable and showed very minor scaling.
I thought this could have a thousand reasons like different resolutions actual PC-Engine games ran in, my television is just not pixelperfect, or just an Xport emulator related problem - who knows?

After reading the english wiki about the PC-Engine, I realised that it has been updated regarding video modes, and showed some rather odd numbers like 256239. Following the link in the wiki leads to a very interesting discussion concerning the PC-Engine's resolutions.
I knew, that 768*696 was very close to the real thing, and could only be off by 1 or 2 pixels vertically. Well, actually I found that 3 pixels were the (my) solution.

Setting the screen to 768*693 will produce no scaling at all. To have a bit more content onscreen I use 1024*693.

Maybe some of you got some spare time to test it out sometime.


#2 gilles9999

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 07:34 PM

Yeah, it was me who created this little help pic (you can view it in any Xport emu, by going in "game utilities/view text file").; in fact i use this help screen every day (i have both hdtv and a sdtv, and i can't play without the original screen ratio! muhaha.gif
The numbers on this screen have been discussed with me and Cospefogo, with 2 experts like us in xport emus, you can be sure the numbers are accurate! rolleyes.gif
For pc engine, for the sdtv users i know there are very few games that use "556 x 464";
so most of the time i set the screen to 512*464

Good to see this help screen is helpfull for one xbox scene member!
p.s.: resX, you should pin this thread in the "other threads of interest" in your ressurectionXtras blog
(i just can't find my original thread where i had put this help screen uhh.gif )

Edited by gilles9999, 03 October 2009 - 07:35 PM.


#3 gilles9999

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 08:00 PM

Ah! i finally find my original thread!

My original thread!

Can you put a link for the original thread in the ressurectionXtras resX?
I'm sure it will help a lot the users who want to play with the original pixel ratio!

#4 flavor

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 08:24 PM

Your're numbers are acurate in terms of aspect ratio and overall picture dimensions, but I think there is a problem in the way Xport generates his absolute integer coordinates like 640*480. These are only close approximations of much more exact values, and when you're scaled image reaches a certain size, approximation errors result in one or two distorted lines.
So adding 3 extra lines seems to get rid of the minor distortions.

Edited by flavor, 03 October 2009 - 08:26 PM.


#5 gilles9999

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 10:50 PM

We know that with cospefogo, how was the original screen, how it is set exactly in Xport emus, etc...
don't spend too much time by looking at the original system spec in wikipedia (and sometimes it's wrong in wikipedia), plus, even if you know exactly the original screen, there are some weird things in our xbox emus:
for example, the original neo geo output is 302*224; so in a sdtv, on fba xxx, the correct value should be 608*448....
lost, we don't know why, but the screen valu in fba, if you don't want any distortions must be 608*452!

Don't make smoke with your brain, there is only one way to check this:
Check with the games in your xbox emus!

- to be sure my snes screen is accurate i use "toys" (horizontal and vertical lines in the 1st level floor)512*478= no distortions! cool i can enjoy all the sprites like they was originally designed by the artists!
- for nes, i check the level 1.1 mountain (a beautifull 45 line),512*448 IS PERFECT for nes
- for genesis i check with "light crusader", or sonic 1
- for pc engine, sidearms is great
- for game boy, mario land is a good game to check
- atari st, pacmania
- gba, zelda minish cap
- neo geo (fbaxxx) view point is perfect

etc....
The best (and only way to be sure) is to launch a game and set our values, you will see the game will play without any distortions.
You had (minor) problems with medna pce in 720p right? for wich game? Is it the only emu you have encountered a little distortion?

Edited by gilles9999, 03 October 2009 - 10:59 PM.


#6 flavor

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:04 AM

Yes, it's the only emu that seems to have problems with the values on your chart. And it's pixel perfect now with those three extra pixels vertically. I know that on PC-Engine you had quite a few variations in resolutions, but your and my values seem to fit for the most part. I noticed the minor distortions in games like Gunhead, the Bonks, R-Type, Darius, Atomic Robokid and others. Using 696 vertically is simply not right at least not on my setup. The problem does not occur on SD, only in 720p.
Agreed for the rest. View Point is perfect. The Fbaxxx NeoGeo settings rock!

This is what happens when using 768*696

Two lines are just not scaled properly. 693 produces a perfectly dithered grid.

IPB Image

Edited by flavor, 04 October 2009 - 12:05 AM.


#7 althena

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE(flavor @ Oct 4 2009, 12:04 AM) View Post

This is what happens when using 768*696

Two lines are just not scaled properly. 693 produces a perfectly dithered grid.



I can confirm this happening under my MednafenX-PCE too in 720p. With 768x696 in some games when vertically scrolling I see two horizontal lines which look not very clear. No such problem with 768x693, thanks for sharing this correction smile.gif

#8 Cospefogo

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 11:08 AM

Hey guys from the pixel-perfect-land!

I just think it is important to mention that - if you want correct pixel aspect ratio - the best way
to play NEO-GEO is NOT through FBA-XXX Pro. Neither CoinOPS. It is REALLY NOT the best way.
Why I say that? Simple:

The NEO-GEO world splits itself into 2 different screen resolutions... yes, TWO!
304x224 and 320x224.

Let me go a bit further - When I say FBA is not the best way, I mean a FBA version
just "out of the box", just installed for all games and with a single screen configuration set-up
by the user. It does not mind if the player set up a perfect 304x224 screensize on FBA, some
games will work perfect, and some will be distorted. And I go yet further... CoinOPS,
just "out of the box" is also not ready for the two NEO-GEO screensizes, since BOTH
emulators are capable to handle just a single universal/global screensize for all its
very installed games.

So, the only way here, for the path of the correct screen aspect ratio, is to have distinct
emulators for each screensize. You should have 2 FBA or 2 CoinOPS installed, and they
SHOULD have its XBEs hacked to save in different locations, otherwise you will have
conflict of the internal save mechanisms.

I spent a LOT of time searchin, inspecting and finding the 304x224 and the
320x224 NeoGeo games, and I really don't understand why this happens, why SNK
or the game developers has made such thing on their games. Even the "closed and sequenced"
series like Samurai Spirits split their titles those 2 different screensizes. Here I use CoinOPS
to play the NeoGeo games, and some Samurai Spirits are installed in one CoinOPS and some
are installed in other CoinOPS. I never discovered the reason of this difference, and one thing
I never checked - is this strictly related to a complete game title (I mean, all its versions and
releases) or it happens accordingly to region or game revision? Never went after this information...

If someone wants my list of the NeoGeo games accordingly to their screensizes, please let me know.
Other method to find out the games aspect ratio is to inspect the size of the screenshot on a
trustable site like MAWS. You will easily spot the difference.

Best regards,
Brothers of the Cult of the Perfect-Pixel-World.
Cospefogo.

Edited by Cospefogo, 09 November 2009 - 11:10 AM.


#9 ressurectionx

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 03:48 PM

Man... I really wish I could see what you guys are seeing.

I feel like the blind man lost in the valley of the Cyclops.

I think it's kinda funny really. When I think about how eccentric your obsession is with the perfect aspect ratio, I just remind myself of what all my friends and family must think about my own obsession with having the perfect gaming console with all of the Xtras, and perfect synopsis for every game, and one uniform skin for every emulator on the box.

Sure wish you guys could figure this all out and then share your save files with the rest of us so we could add "perfect aspect ratio" to all games one day along with the rest of the Xtras.



If you were ever interested in that, I could provide any interested parties with datfiles and my own save files for every game so you could just edit my save files and send them back to me one day with the perfect aspect ratios.

PM me if you're interested.

~Rx

#10 flavor

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 08:18 PM

Althena thanks for testing and confirming. :>

Same change in resolution goes for NeoGenesis as well.

960x672 would be mathematically correct, but it must be 960x669

I made a typo in one of my earlier postings. It's not adding 3 pixels, it's substracting 3 pixels.

The 'minus three pixel rule' only applies for MednafenPC-E and Neogenesis. All other emus seem to render correctly.

Cospefogo, thanks for pointing that out!

ressurectionx, I would not call it obsession. Fiddling around with the best emu console around just gives me inner peace. wink.gif
Other people go fishing, race fast cars, date girls. biggrin.gif

Edited by flavor, 09 November 2009 - 08:22 PM.


#11 zorglub

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE(Cospefogo @ Nov 9 2009, 12:08 PM) View Post



If someone wants my list of the NeoGeo games accordingly to their screensizes, please let me know.
Other method to find out the games aspect ratio is to inspect the size of the screenshot on a
trustable site like MAWS. You will easily spot the difference.


Dear Perfect-Pixel-World great priest, if you mind sharing your findings with the neo geo titles concerned, I'm greatly interested.

#12 Cospefogo

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE(zorglub @ Nov 10 2009, 10:12 AM) View Post

Dear Perfect-Pixel-World great priest, if you mind sharing your findings with the neo geo titles concerned, I'm greatly interested.



Dear Zor-Glub,

Check here:
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=696012

Cospefogo.

#13 ressurectionx

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:11 AM

QUOTE(flavor @ Nov 9 2009, 02:18 PM) View Post

ressurectionx, I would not call it obsession. Fiddling around with the best emu console around just gives me inner peace. wink.gif
Other people go fishing, race fast cars, date girls. biggrin.gif



Haha.... don't kid yourself bud.

It's totally an obsession....

It gives me peace too, but at the same time, me and everyone around me gets older and I'm not really a part of any of it.



98% of the time I'm more than happy being free and single and successful enough in life to afford myself the ability to work on this project with such zeal.

That other 2% of the time can sure be lonely though.

I'm just hoping in the end that people really get a lot of enjoyment out of all of this.

Regards,
~Rx




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