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Re: Terms Of Use And Warranty Terms


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#1 dcjoedog

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 10:02 PM

Can anyone, anywhere find a clause in any of Microsoft's and/or Xbox'x terms of use where it states that they can cripple you system or any offline capability? I ask because I just spent the last hour reading all my manuals and online updated TOU for XBox Live, and can't find one for hardware, other than warranty which says that if I open it I don't have it any longer.

So, is MS in the legal right to be crippling HDD's? I read the available TOUs out there and they are in the right to cut me from LIVE, but beyond that I think it can be considered hacking into a private network. or at the very least, destruction of private property.

I am dead serious, can anyone find ANYTHING that gives MS the right to cripple Hard Drives?

#2 chorizo1

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:12 PM

ask a lawyer.

#3 DemisesAngel

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 12:59 AM

QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Nov 7 2009, 05:12 PM) View Post
ask a lawyer.


The lawyer would have to know the ToS or ToU (whatever it may be called) inside and out. My father is still a lawyer, but I know if I called him he wouldn't have the slightest idea, at least until he read it through and through.

I think it would be quite the uproar (media wise) to have tons of cases against M$ if this were true and could be fought.

Edited by DemisesAngel, 08 November 2009 - 01:00 AM.


#4 No_Name

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 01:53 AM

They are not crippling the hard drive. It is still 100% functional.

#5 dcjoedog

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 02:24 AM

Well, for all intents and purposes they took away a feature that has nothing to do with the XBOX LIVE service, and even disabled the legitimate installation of store bought discs, how can they justify this? I do buy games, it's how I know that real discs will no longer install anymore.

So where is it that I agreed to lose this functionality along with being banned off XBOX LIVE, and let me make myself clear, I am not fighting the ban from live, I played backups and I fully accept the fact that they can keep me from logging on to their network, but to cripple my hardware on a whim, I don't think so.

#6 DemisesAngel

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 02:25 AM

QUOTE(No_Name @ Nov 7 2009, 07:53 PM) View Post
They are not crippling the hard drive. It is still 100% functional.


I think he is wondering, where is the ToS does it state that any added functionality will be taken away upon being banned. I may be wrong... I'm having an off day. grr.gif

Edit: My post was too slow.

Edited by DemisesAngel, 08 November 2009 - 02:26 AM.


#7 sonic2120

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:46 AM

QUOTE(dcjoedog @ Nov 7 2009, 07:24 PM) View Post

Well, for all intents and purposes they took away a feature that has nothing to do with the XBOX LIVE service, and even disabled the legitimate installation of store bought discs, how can they justify this? I do buy games, it's how I know that real discs will no longer install anymore.

So where is it that I agreed to lose this functionality along with being banned off XBOX LIVE, and let me make myself clear, I am not fighting the ban from live, I played backups and I fully accept the fact that they can keep me from logging on to their network, but to cripple my hardware on a whim, I don't think so.


Well originally the xbox 360 didn't have the ability to install to hard drive. That came with NXE which was an update from Live. If it came from Live for free then they should be able to take it away. Now this gets a bit sketchy since new xboxes come with NXE and I'm sure the ability to install to hard drive. I'm not sure how this applies to the newer consoles but if you're older console got banned and the hard drive locked to it, you really don't have a leg to stand on. Maybe users with Jasper systems that came loaded with the ability can fight but I assume the majority of banned users don't have jasper systems.

#8 xrkahn76

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:50 AM

QUOTE(No_Name @ Nov 7 2009, 06:53 PM) View Post

They are not crippling the hard drive. It is still 100% functional.



What about crippling a western digital mybook that was plugged in when the system was banned? Cracked it open and can't even connect it to a pc.

#9 No_Name

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 05:59 AM

QUOTE(DemisesAngel @ Nov 7 2009, 05:25 PM) View Post

I think he is wondering, where is the ToS does it state that any added functionality will be taken away upon being banned. I may be wrong... I'm having an off day. grr.gif

Edit: My post was too slow.

I am sure there is a clause that they can modify the service at time time which would more than cover this.

#10 StrictPuppet

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:13 AM

QUOTE(xrkahn76 @ Nov 7 2009, 06:50 PM) View Post

What about crippling a western digital mybook that was plugged in when the system was banned? Cracked it open and can't even connect it to a pc.


Ya... and the lightbulb in my bathroom stopped working soon as I was banned.... I am gonna sue....

#11 Deveant

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:14 AM

13. SERVICE OPERATION AND EQUIPMENT
QUOTE

Microsoft reserves complete and sole discretion with respect to the operation of the Service. Microsoft may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; (cool.gif retrieve information from the original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, personal computer, and any connected peripheral device used to log onto the Service as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this Agreement; and © upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service or any game from time to time without notice, which may involve the automatic download of related software directly to your original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, personal computer, and which software may prevent you from accessing the Service, playing pirated games, or using unauthorized peripheral devices.


#12 sonic2120

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 08:36 AM

QUOTE(xrkahn76 @ Nov 7 2009, 08:50 PM) View Post

What about crippling a western digital mybook that was plugged in when the system was banned? Cracked it open and can't even connect it to a pc.


Funny that I actually had a Western Digital MyBook plugged in to my xbox 360 when it got banned. The hard drive works perfectly fine still. Chances are your drive just crapped out on you. Its always easier to point the finger than to admit defeat isn't it?

#13 dcjoedog

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 06:15 AM

QUOTE(Deveant @ Nov 8 2009, 12:14 AM) View Post

13. SERVICE OPERATION AND EQUIPMENT


None of that means that they can kill my paid for hardware, ALL of that keeps saying that ANYTHING to do with LIVE they have the right to discontinue or change at their discretion, and I accept this, but where does it say they can take away functionality I paid for out of the box?

#14 importune

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE(dcjoedog @ Nov 9 2009, 12:15 AM) View Post

None of that means that they can kill my paid for hardware, ALL of that keeps saying that ANYTHING to do with LIVE they have the right to discontinue or change at their discretion, and I accept this, but where does it say they can take away functionality I paid for out of the box?



They never, at any point, damage any of your hardware. It is all still 100% functional, even if you get caught pirating.

#15 ZprivateZ

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 07:01 AM

Like people have already said the HDD is still functional, and sure you own the hardware but not the software that makes the hardware work they have every right to add or remove any feature they see fit for whatever reason. If they determine someone has a modded system then they have all rights to disable features within the software. It used to be just a ban but piracy has remained a problem for them so this is just their next deterrent in their fight against piracy. You can't blame them really it was you that choose to mod your system knowing full well the risk involved so there is no point in getting upset over it and most definitely no grounds to sue.




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