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Discuss: Is Nonstealth 1.4 Safe W/verified Discs


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#1 Goldeye

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 01:55 AM

I'm hoping for some knowledgeable opinions about this.
It seems to me there are two decent theories for people using verified discs getting banned:

1. Firmware timings -- stealth-checking routines delay security responses from ix fw, enough for ms to detect.
2. Modding process detection -- Flag set when 360 is booted without the DVD drive connected

I've seen the first mentioned frequently in threads, and the second much less so although my own experiences seem to indicate it's a possible cause.

So I have two questions maybe someone can answer:
1. Do the ix firmwares perform any checks on original discs (that could reveal the fw's latency)
If so, then it'd seem to go against the ban-for-timing theory. If not, it's seem to support it. (Based on unbanned 1.6 ix that only plays originals)

2. Does nonstealth fw like 1.4 have any drawbacks, other than the risk of unverified discs, and lack of compatibility for new drives.
In other words, should nonstealth 1.4 be as safe as the discs are?

#2 Goldeye

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:17 AM

Oh and the other question I forgot to add.
Has anyone checked the latencies on the security responses? Is there software out there to elicit security responses from a drive? How about documentation about it, that might be used to make such a test setup?


#3 chorizo1

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:22 AM

QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 15 2009, 07:00 PM) View Post

stealth checks seem to be what MS is able to detect


C4eva has said the same thing i think.. anyway you're right newbie chat...........

#4 orlandomodder

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:34 AM

QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Nov 15 2009, 08:22 PM) View Post

C4eva has said the same thing i think.. anyway you're right newbie chat...........



moved, to newbie chat who the heck will see it now?

#5 tequiller

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 03:05 AM

Two BenQ's on 1.4 non stealth, both not banned


#6 WBones

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 03:17 AM

QUOTE(tequiller @ Nov 15 2009, 08:05 PM) View Post

Two BenQ's on 1.4 non stealth, both not banned


So far I've seen approximately 9 people with 1.4 non-stealth that have not been banned and 0 that have been banned.

Kinda funny if it was the stealth checks that ended up getting us caught tongue.gif

This makes me wonder if and when c4eva releases Lite Touch (which is essentially non-stealth firmware for the Lite-On) if he'll just say for everyone else to use 1.4 non-stealth in the meantime

#7 orlandomodder

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:18 AM

that must suck to move forums all day!

but on a more serious note.

I think i will be modding my first xbox to 1.4

i wish i wouldnt have upgraded to nxe { i think it wasnt even mandatory}

i will make sure my games are 100% verified though




i would like to see someone who got banned on 1.4

there rips were probably bad.

#8 WBones

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:27 AM

Maybe people with 1.4 have been banned. We are talking specifically about the Non-stealth version of the firmware though. I havent seen anyone with non-stealth being banned yet

#9 sini

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:59 AM

QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 16 2009, 03:27 AM) View Post

Maybe people with 1.4 have been banned. We are talking specifically about the Non-stealth version of the firmware though. I havent seen anyone with non-stealth being banned yet


Then there must be something else special about 1.4 non-stealth because 1.51 for hitachi is also non-stealth and there have been numerous confirmed bans on those. Might have to try 1.4 again...

Edited by sini, 16 November 2009 - 05:00 AM.


#10 orlandomodder

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:21 AM

this should be the real tests c4eva should be doing.

{ not that the lt ones arent good}

c4eva is the man!!!
nonethe less

but yeah, im trying to see if my freind will mod my 360 tommorrow to 1.4 pre -stealth.

i could always to iextreme lt later.

its a shame this topic was moved.

Maybe more people would join the wagon.

#11 WBones

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:24 AM

QUOTE(sini @ Nov 15 2009, 09:59 PM) View Post

Then there must be something else special about 1.4 non-stealth because 1.51 for hitachi is also non-stealth and there have been numerous confirmed bans on those. Might have to try 1.4 again...


Yeah I'm not sure if 1.51 for Hitachi is completely non-stealth or not but if it is then this theory is blown

#12 Toddler

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:48 AM

QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 15 2009, 10:24 PM) View Post

Yeah I'm not sure if 1.51 for Hitachi is completely non-stealth or not but if it is then this theory is blown

These forums are riddled with logical fallacies. How does that "blow the theory"?

Let's assume the following for the purposes of this thread:

- firmware stealth checks can be detected
- invalid stealth data can be detected
- playing early releases can be detected

That would mean:

- perfectly-stealthed discs on stealth-checking firmware can earn you a ban
- improperly-stealthed discs on non-stealth firmware can earn you a ban
- playing early releases on any firmware can earn you a ban

Since there are multiple ways to get banned, you cannot simply say the "theory is blown" just because Hitachi 1.51 users have been banned. You have no way of knowing what they did to get banned in the first place.

The only thing that would "blow the theory" is someone who played perfectly-stealthed discs on non-stealth firmware getting banned. And even then, someone who believes their discs are perfect can be wrong.

On a side note, I wish I had stayed on BenQ 1.41 non-stealth. If I'd known how all this wave shit was going to play out, I'd have never "upgraded" with each firmware update. Microsoft must be laughing mightily if C4E ended up outsmarting himself.

#13 chorizo1

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:53 AM

QUOTE(orlandomodder @ Nov 15 2009, 07:34 PM) View Post

moved, to newbie chat who the heck will see it now?



yep, 244 views so far... who's gonna see it.

technical modding is a forum for people in the middle or attempting to hack their xbox, NOT another "I think this is how they are banning" thread.

You have a problem with me moving your thread PM me.

#14 I Bac0n I

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 06:01 AM

The hitachi 1.51 does have stealth checks.

they removed the PFi compliance so they wouldn't have to update it every time there was a new wave, because there is like 20 different firmwares for the hitachi drives

i believe the DMI and SS checks are still there.

The non stealth firmware will play the game regardless of dmi and pfi, just as long as the SS is valid and patched to the correct place.

#15 MindsEye

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 06:14 AM

I got 1.4 and I am also still not banned... Tho I also:
Have only played on live 1 time. (screaming kids suck)
Never played anything prerel
I use my xbox mostly to stream tvirsity, therefore its on 24/7
I have played MOST titles on this box, but never any wave releases.

Dunno if this info helps, but it does seem the 1.41 fw's arent getting the banhammer.




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