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The Ap25 Faq - In Depth And Updated For 13604


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#31 bollwage

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:51 AM

so if a game is run through abgx right now will it pass the new system updates ap25 challenges?



#32 DaShiZNiT

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE(bollwage @ May 25 2011, 06:51 PM) View Post

so if a game is run through abgx right now will it pass the new system updates ap25 challenges?


No. The new patches haven't been released.

#33 bollwage

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE(DaShiZNiT @ May 26 2011, 09:32 PM) View Post

No. The new patches haven't been released.



how will the news of new patches be released? team jungle twitter?

#34 Maximize

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 11:53 PM

I just ran black ops thru abgx and it patched the ap2.5 sector, so I checked the rest and it patched them as well. they were already patched, so I am assuming these are the new 13146 responses. But I think that just assuming this is reckless. I did some googling but I dont see any info one way or the other. Can anyone comment?

#35 bollwage

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 04:01 AM

QUOTE(Maximize @ May 30 2011, 11:53 PM) View Post

I just ran black ops thru abgx and it patched the ap2.5 sector, so I checked the rest and it patched them as well. they were already patched, so I am assuming these are the new 13146 responses. But I think that just assuming this is reckless. I did some googling but I dont see any info one way or the other. Can anyone comment?


i burned the iso after running through abgx 24 hours ago, it said it patched ap2.5 but the xbox will not run the game (black screen = lt+ safety feature)

#36 Obveron

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:27 PM

What's stopping MS from challenging ALL games with AP2.5? Why only 6 games?

Also, is it possible to make a non-live safe F/W that will respond with challenges good enough to make a backup boot? Removing the need to make new backups every time the challenges change.
I thought X-S policy was to keep backups off live anyways.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have absolutely no interest in playing backups on live, yet missed the chance for Jtag. These people still want the latest dashboards for playing the latest games, but don't care about being live safe.

#37 babylonx

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE(Obveron @ Jun 15 2011, 03:27 PM) View Post

What's stopping MS from challenging ALL games with AP2.5? Why only 6 games?


I guess they can but they don't do it for some reason. It is also possible that there are no challenges written on all older games.

QUOTE(Obveron @ Jun 15 2011, 03:27 PM) View Post

Also, is it possible to make a non-live safe F/W that will respond with challenges good enough to make a backup boot? Removing the need to make new backups every time the challenges change.
I thought X-S policy was to keep backups off live anyways.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have absolutely no interest in playing backups on live, yet missed the chance for Jtag. These people still want the latest dashboards for playing the latest games, but don't care about being live safe.


They can't do that. Challenges are data written on original disks. When the console asks for them it already has them on its nand. Its asking them and verifies that they are also on the disk and that they are the same. So its not something like a yes or no answer from the drive. The drive should return back to the console the data the console asks from the disk and there is no way for this to be bypassed from a firmware.


My question is:
Why don't they include all known challenges with the new patch? Why making an updated disk only compatible with the latest dashboard and not all of them until the last one? If I re-burn my game it is not going to be compatible with older dashboards.. Thats not very convenient if I want to give my newer backups to someone that hasn't updated yet. It is also not convenient if I want to download a game today and patch it with abgx360 to play it with my non-updated console. It's kind of forcing you to update or stay with the games you already burned earlier.

Edited by babylonx, 15 June 2011 - 02:56 PM.


#38 grimgriefer

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:17 PM

Excellent forum post so thanks for that.

Just to clarify for my own peace of mind, if a person has an xbox with a Samsung drive or an Hitachi ver 59 or less they could play backups (as long as they as SSV2 compliant and running LT+1.1) on XBL and not run the risk of an SSV3/AP2.5 flag?

If so, can these be flagged in another way?

Edited by grimgriefer, 16 June 2011 - 08:19 PM.


#39 The Wizzard

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:21 PM

Hi, i thought that the patches for the AP2.5 games were now available from ABGX360? I'm sure i've seen comments to that effect on the forums?

Can anyone clarify this??

#40 toddgei

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:12 AM

One question I have is that if I have a pre-patched image of a ap 2.5 game (black ops) can I upgrade this image for the new ap2.5 checks or do I have to use a clean non patched image of the game in order to have the new ap2.5 data ??

#41 chrismelman

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:45 PM

Is there a way to still use the old challenge set instead of the new one? like an old database dump?

#42 Tchicum

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 01:05 AM

QUOTE(Obveron @ Jun 15 2011, 11:27 AM) View Post

What's stopping MS from challenging ALL games with AP2.5? Why only 6 games?

Also, is it possible to make a non-live safe F/W that will respond with challenges good enough to make a backup boot? Removing the need to make new backups every time the challenges change.
I thought X-S policy was to keep backups off live anyways.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have absolutely no interest in playing backups on live, yet missed the chance for Jtag. These people still want the latest dashboards for playing the latest games, but don't care about being live safe.



exactly what I'm looking for...
I have 2 systems here @ home, one still using original fw, never modded and thus live safe (of course) and my old xbox system which was banned with 9199 (thus preventing me from jtag-ing it).

what I wanted to do is boot anything just like what used to be done with old Xtreme 5.* releases that didn't need to be stealth at all.

From what I understand now, the problem lies not on the DVD fw , but on the dashboard + disc data combo, as the challenge / response tables are changing with every dashboard update.

As we have just a few challenge / response matches at the moment I guess it would be impossible to do, but if we have more data, couldn't we work onto something like a dummy response that would always return something valid? not meant to be live safe, just to boot every piece of game we burnt withouth having to worry with patches and stuff.


in the OP`s faq there is something about some "fake" patches which allows you to boot your games but are not live safe.

would those patches work on future dashboard updates?

#43 babylonx

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 11:39 AM

The "fake" responses were extracted from the dae.bin. This is the file in the nand of the Xbox that has the verification data. Its the place where the Xbox looks to verify that the data from the disk matches. They somehow managed to take the data from this file instead of the original disks. So the data is valid but somehow dirty. I guess the process leaves some traces on the data that makes them not as clean as required. So the data is as valid as needed to boot the game but contain traces that make them recognizable and trigger a flag.

I guess this answers your questions. The data is not universal. It is just the correct data extracted the wrong way. So the answer is "NO". You can't create some kind of universal responce. The check is a part of the Xbox OS, not some kind of internal drive check like the protection we had before AP2.5 was enabled. So unless there is a new valid way to exploit and hack the OS (like the older jtag method did) don't expect a universal drive-firmware based solution.

#44 Riverpatrol

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:37 PM

Great post. Thanks for the info.

#45 Obveron

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE(babylonx @ Jul 15 2011, 11:39 AM) View Post

The "fake" responses were extracted from the dae.bin. This is the file in the nand of the Xbox that has the verification data. Its the place where the Xbox looks to verify that the data from the disk matches. They somehow managed to take the data from this file instead of the original disks. So the data is valid but somehow dirty. I guess the process leaves some traces on the data that makes them not as clean as required. So the data is as valid as needed to boot the game but contain traces that make them recognizable and trigger a flag.

I guess this answers your questions. The data is not universal. It is just the correct data extracted the wrong way. So the answer is "NO". You can't create some kind of universal responce. The check is a part of the Xbox OS, not some kind of internal drive check like the protection we had before AP2.5 was enabled. So unless there is a new valid way to exploit and hack the OS (like the older jtag method did) don't expect a universal drive-firmware based solution.


Seems to me the answer is YES, you can create a response that will make the game boot, it just will end up in a flag for ban, hence my question, can a NON live safe CFW be made that will boot AP2.5 games for those that don't use Live? x-s has always held the policy that backups shouldn't be on live in the first place.

Edited by Obveron, 27 July 2011 - 04:34 PM.





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