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Dae.bin Has Changed in Xbox 360 Fall 2011 Preview Dash


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#31 Aldanga

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 10:55 PM

QUOTE(looneeii @ Nov 11 2011, 10:56 AM) View Post
I don't get it...for those of us who ripped our own bought game does that mean we have to re-rip and then insert a new dae? Since I thought the rip I did on my own FM4 was 1:1. Wasn't it?

Rips are never 1:1, due to differing manufacturing processes of consumer and retail discs.


#32 looneeii

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 11 2011, 04:55 PM) View Post

Rips are never 1:1, due to differing manufacturing processes of consumer and retail discs.


Ok I get it, only considered 1:1 until a new DAE.BIN shows up.



#33 Aldanga

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:21 AM

No, they're never, ever, in any circumstances considered 1:1. The data on the disc is all ripped, but the discs are not exact copies. Consumer recordable media is done with dye. Retail media is done by laser etching. The laser-etched discs have angles, while the dye does not. Thus, backup media are not exact replicas of the retail media.

#34 shadowbroker

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:01 AM

was able to play mw3 and skyrim no problem today...

... just installed the new beta dash a moment ago, and was able to install skyrim to HDD as normal, but not play it "unsupported" and mw3 is also "unsupported" shows the games in the tray, but will not play. B***ards.

really odd way this time, like its still flashed due to showing the title in tray, but not letting me play.

#35 ruciz

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:09 AM

QUOTE(looneeii @ Nov 11 2011, 05:56 PM) View Post

I don't get it...for those of us who ripped our own bought game does that mean we have to re-rip and then insert a new dae? Since I thought the rip I did on my own FM4 was 1:1. Wasn't it?


Another point, if it was 1:1 - you wouldn't need to modify the 360 in any way.

By the reports it seems like MS finally got the 'keyrolling' working in some fashion without modifying the drive's firmware.

Does being connected or disconnected from LIVE affect anything?

Edited by ruciz, 12 November 2011 - 01:12 AM.


#36 Unimatrix47

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:33 AM

Isn't it time we all gave up?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
NOPE!!!!
Muh Hu HAhahahaha...

Edited by Unimatrix47, 12 November 2011 - 01:34 AM.


#37 filletofish

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:41 AM

QUOTE(AmyGrrl @ Nov 11 2011, 10:56 PM) View Post

You don't have to update the firmware on the 360. But if you want to play on XBOX Live! then you have to update the firmware. Now sometimes when a new Dashboard/Firmware gets released it includes a new dae.bin file. This file contains the new AP2.5 challenge/responses. This means all AP2.5 Games need to be re-burned with the new responses. I should note here that AP2.5 Games are not true 1:1 backups. We just don't have the space to fit all the responses on a burned discs. There are far to many of them. I find it very funny that people act all surprised when they have to burn AP2.5 Games again. This has happened several times already. Its not anything new.

I was thinking in the future it would be nice if we could dump all the responses for a game to a txt file. Then when a new dashboard comes out with a new dae.bin file. We could then use the new dae.bin and the txt to re-patch the Game's ISO. This way we wouldn't have to rely on others to re-dump the AP2.5 data from a retail disc and provide them for us. Granted I don't fully know all the details of AP2.5. This txt file could be really huge in size for all I know.


You have no idea how AP2.5 works.

It is a physical measurement of angles of where certain data is stored on a disk relative to other data. The challenge\response isn't some cryptographic secret code, it's simply the physical measurment. It would be impossible to store this data on the disk, or in a text file as it would take thousands of terrabytes...PER DISK!

QUOTE(shadowbroker @ Nov 12 2011, 02:01 AM) View Post

was able to play mw3 and skyrim no problem today...

... just installed the new beta dash a moment ago, and was able to install skyrim to HDD as normal, but not play it "unsupported" and mw3 is also "unsupported" shows the games in the tray, but will not play. B***ards.

really odd way this time, like its still flashed due to showing the title in tray, but not letting me play.


You're using a crappy truncated burnt iso. Best give that information before misleading people there is a "problem".

#38 Dermy

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:58 AM

QUOTE
We can confirm though that these changes will indeed necessitate new versions of and/or changes to Xbox Backup Creator, abgx360, and several other associated tools.


Does this mean that an entirely different retail rip will be needed for dashboard 14686? If they have to change how XBC works, then it might mean that more than just the AP2.5 data has changed. It sounds like it might not be as simple as patching new AP2.5 data into existing ISOs with ABGX360 (which still hasn't been updated for XGD3 atm) and reburning like usual. If changes were made, I wonder if they were made to XGD2 games with AP2.5 as well as XGD3 games.

Any thoughts?

#39 DodgeM4s

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:11 AM

QUOTE(klbarnes1 @ Nov 11 2011, 08:53 PM) View Post

People go through the trouble because most people want to be able to play their backups online, jtag/rgh/xkey cannot do this (play online), that is why!


I dont think there has been any reports of bans from people using an xkey online yet.


#40 filletofish

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:32 AM

QUOTE(Dermy @ Nov 12 2011, 02:58 AM) View Post

Does this mean that an entirely different retail rip will be needed for dashboard 14686? If they have to change how XBC works, then it might mean that more than just the AP2.5 data has changed. It sounds like it might not be as simple as patching new AP2.5 data into existing ISOs with ABGX360 (which still hasn't been updated for XGD3 atm) and reburning like usual. If changes were made, I wonder if they were made to XGD2 games with AP2.5 as well as XGD3 games.

Any thoughts?


No it doesn't, where on earth did you get that idea?

#41 bubbafett4hire

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:41 AM

EVERYONE CALM DOWN

1st) This is almost no different then every other time a new dash comes out with different AP2.5 data with the need for re-burning backups with proper info, many of you should expect this by now as we've gone through this how many times already.

2nd) Why would you opt to put a beta update on your flashed machine when you know almost every past update they have changed AP25 data as well as other hidden items and wonder why backups won't boot.

3rd) Everyone who's jumping the gun thinking this is a bad thing needs to remember that XBC isn't even fully done yet as the current version of XBC still can't burn XGD3 discs , and we are still waiting for a new ABGX beyond this new change.

Everyone take a pill or smoke somthing and relax!!! people are working on it and jumping to speculation is just going to put out bad information when we have no real facts yet other then a DAE table change and C4E saying we will need some new software

QUOTE(DodgeM4s @ Nov 11 2011, 08:11 PM) View Post

I dont think there has been any reports of bans from people using an xkey online yet.


According to C4E he claims he knows of 2 already being banned using xkey


#42 Mehtevas

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:02 AM

QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 11 2011, 08:41 PM) View Post

You have no idea how AP2.5 works.

It is a physical measurement of angles of where certain data is stored on a disk relative to other data. The challenge\response isn't some cryptographic secret code, it's simply the physical measurment. It would be impossible to store this data on the disk, or in a text file as it would take thousands of terrabytes...PER DISK!
You're using a crappy truncated burnt iso. Best give that information before misleading people there is a "problem".


So what I get from that is I won't have to reburn all these XGD3 discs I burnt for my kids because I bought the iHas burner and Verbs and did it right to begin with?

I don't mind reburning them after patching them but it'd be nice to not have to with my 100% verified burns.
Knowing my luck, probably will have to anyway for the new ap2.5 data lol.

#43 Dermy

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:37 AM

QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 11 2011, 09:32 PM) View Post

No it doesn't, where on earth did you get that idea?
I don't know. Maybe I am misinterpreting the sentence. But if this were just like the previous dashboard updates where the dae.bin was updated, the sentence I quoted would not be in the announcement and we would go about patching our ISOs with new AP2.5 data and reburning as normal. I'm hoping bubbafett4hire is right about how this is like any other dashboard update where the dae.bin was changed. We'll see.

I agree that we probably should wait for more info instead of speculating.

#44 DARKFiB3R

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:09 AM

QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 11 2011, 11:21 PM) View Post

No, they're never, ever, in any circumstances considered 1:1. The data on the disc is all ripped, but the discs are not exact copies. Consumer recordable media is done with dye. Retail media is done by laser etching. The laser-etched discs have angles, while the dye does not. Thus, backup media are not exact replicas of the retail media.

The master discs are produced using various laser methods. Retail discs are pressed/stamped from this master.

The result is the same of course, i.e. the pits having angles which cannot be reproduced on recordable media.

Edited by DARKFiB3R, 12 November 2011 - 04:10 AM.


#45 HotKnife420

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:39 AM

I think there's a general confusion regarding how AP2.5, and more specifically, how it translates to the end-user. I will admit, I am amongst the confused, and I will try and ask some direct questions, if anyone cares to field them:
  1. Is the AP2.5 data only physical angle measurements, or is there other data as well?
  2. If the physical disc does not change, why does the measurement?
  3. Have these 'angle measurements' potentially limited dvd performance (ie: increased load times to stop and measure)?
  4. Are there still only 6 titles who's AP2.5 data has been activated?





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