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Power Light Is Green, But Doesnt Boot


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#1 t3rm3y

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:17 PM

I replaced the xclamps and original thermal compound with washers / bolts and new artic silver paste on a rrod console.
when i powered it all on i just had a green light in the centre but it didnt do the ring of green and boot. i switched off and on a couple times then it booted, but keeps repeating the problem..
i replaced the rf board but made no difference, i then used some flux on the hana chip and hoped it went under or in somewhere (not sure what it does but was laying there next to my tools)

any thoughts as to what would cause the console not to boot? any fixes or thoughts?

#2 canyonnehastings

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE(t3rm3y @ Jun 12 2012, 05:17 PM) View Post

I replaced the xclamps and original thermal compound with washers / bolts and new artic silver paste on a rrod console.
when i powered it all on i just had a green light in the centre but it didnt do the ring of green and boot. i switched off and on a couple times then it booted, but keeps repeating the problem..
i replaced the rf board but made no difference, i then used some flux on the hana chip and hoped it went under or in somewhere (not sure what it does but was laying there next to my tools)

any thoughts as to what would cause the console not to boot? any fixes or thoughts?


I'm so baffled why people still do the X-clamp fix. The bolts will put too much constant pressure on the chip, which could cause solderballs to crush or the ship to even crack. They WILL put constant pressure on the board causing it to warp (often beyond repair). And they will put uneven pressure on the chips, causing inefficient heat dissipation, and RROD soon in the future.

You really should have the GPU reflowed or reballed by someone with the equipment. I can do a reflow for you with my reworking station, or Wilgo can do a reflow/reball for you too.

If you have no clean flux and you're really set on not spending any money (but also willing to risk the entire life of your console), you can attempt an oven reflow. You MUST insulate the capacitors and plastic parts very well and you must use no clean liquid flux under the chips. But please don't use a heatgun....

You have with a bridged solder ball or a cold solder joint under the GPU probably. The bolts are a bandaid and all they do is put pressure on the cracked solder ball so the two points meet again and electricity can flow. This never ever lasts forever and usually lasts less than 2 weeks (but for some reason people still advertise the x clamp fix? ugh). A reflow is when you remelt the solder balls so the crack gets filled. You flux under the chips first to make sure everything is clean and the solder is soft and ready for a clean reflow. A reflow without flux is almost always short lived. Then you use thermocouples and a reworking station/heater to heat it up slowly and evenly so the board doesnt warp from localized thermal expansion. This is a far better method than the oven because capacitors can and will explode when they get that hot, so an oven reflow is always a risk.

A reball is the best option but it's usually more pricey. Its where the whole chip is removed and the solder balls are replaced with lead solder balls (which are less likely to crack in the future).

Good luck and let me know if you need any clarification on anything.

#3 MadMaxGR

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:22 AM

QUOTE(t3rm3y @ Jun 13 2012, 01:17 AM) View Post

I replaced the xclamps and original thermal compound with washers / bolts and new artic silver paste on a rrod console.
when i powered it all on i just had a green light in the centre but it didnt do the ring of green and boot. i switched off and on a couple times then it booted, but keeps repeating the problem..
i replaced the rf board but made no difference, i then used some flux on the hana chip and hoped it went under or in somewhere (not sure what it does but was laying there next to my tools)

any thoughts as to what would cause the console not to boot? any fixes or thoughts?


Maybe some x-clamp applications go wrong indeed, but in your case now, means that you over-screwed the bolts, release some pressure and give it a try again. Also remove the board from the metal cage and turn it on as it is.

#4 t3rm3y

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE(canyonnehastings @ Jun 13 2012, 12:35 AM) View Post

I'm so baffled why people still do the X-clamp fix. The bolts will put too much constant pressure on the chip, which could cause solderballs to crush or the ship to even crack. They WILL put constant pressure on the board causing it to warp (often beyond repair). And they will put uneven pressure on the chips, causing inefficient heat dissipation, and RROD soon in the future.

You really should have the GPU reflowed or reballed by someone with the equipment. I can do a reflow for you with my reworking station, or Wilgo can do a reflow/reball for you too.

If you have no clean flux and you're really set on not spending any money (but also willing to risk the entire life of your console), you can attempt an oven reflow. You MUST insulate the capacitors and plastic parts very well and you must use no clean liquid flux under the chips. But please don't use a heatgun....

You have with a bridged solder ball or a cold solder joint under the GPU probably. The bolts are a bandaid and all they do is put pressure on the cracked solder ball so the two points meet again and electricity can flow. This never ever lasts forever and usually lasts less than 2 weeks (but for some reason people still advertise the x clamp fix? ugh). A reflow is when you remelt the solder balls so the crack gets filled. You flux under the chips first to make sure everything is clean and the solder is soft and ready for a clean reflow. A reflow without flux is almost always short lived. Then you use thermocouples and a reworking station/heater to heat it up slowly and evenly so the board doesnt warp from localized thermal expansion. This is a far better method than the oven because capacitors can and will explode when they get that hot, so an oven reflow is always a risk.

A reball is the best option but it's usually more pricey. Its where the whole chip is removed and the solder balls are replaced with lead solder balls (which are less likely to crack in the future).

Good luck and let me know if you need any clarification on anything.


Thanks for the reply.
I was under the impression the xclamp replacement is probably short lived, i would love to buy a reworkign station and do stuff myself. or even better make a living from it. but i cant afford one. i wont be trying the oven method as just silly - why would a heat gun not be effiecient?
also - how do you get the flux under the chips? they are so close to the board i cant see how liquid would get through, seems to just run over the top. ?

#5 rilski

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE

I'm so baffled why people still do the X-clamp fix. The bolts will put too much constant pressure on the chip, which could cause solderballs to crush or the ship to even crack. They WILL put constant pressure on the board causing it to warp (often beyond repair). And they will put uneven pressure on the chips, causing inefficient heat dissipation, and RROD soon in the future.


Don't take this the WRONG way, but please tell this to the team-xecuter forums also if this is true.

#6 canyonnehastings

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:13 AM

QUOTE(t3rm3y @ Jun 15 2012, 11:43 AM) View Post

Thanks for the reply.
I was under the impression the xclamp replacement is probably short lived, i would love to buy a reworkign station and do stuff myself. or even better make a living from it. but i cant afford one. i wont be trying the oven method as just silly - why would a heat gun not be effiecient?
also - how do you get the flux under the chips? they are so close to the board i cant see how liquid would get through, seems to just run over the top. ?



Yes it is short lived, often so short lived that it isn't even worth the time. I bought a cheap smd reworking station a while back (Aoyue 852A++) for 60 bucks plus shipping on ebay. They are out there if you keep an eye out.

The oven method is better than a heatgun, in my opinion, because a HUGE part of reflows/reballs is the preheating process. It isn't enough to just heat the chips up because when you expose one tiny section of the board to high temperatures like that, localized thermal expansion happens. This warps the board, and when the board is flexed/warped, the chips may not sit correctly on it and not all the contacts will be touching. Oven reflows are better because they heat the entire board up at once so there is no flexing, the reason you shouldn't really use a reflow oven for an Xbox is because of the plastic pieces and capacitors that can't stand that much heat (so if you attempted it, you'd need to insulate them a lot). This is why a reworking station with a preheater is a better option because the preheater (or presto griddle if you're cheap) heats the board up just enough so that nothing explodes or melts, and then the reworking station provides the rest of the heat needed to liquify the solder in that targeted spot (gpu or other chip).

If you use liquid no-clean flux, you can use a pipette to slowly waterfall it under the chips. It does get under there, you just have to be slow about it so it doesn't just make a stream around the chip's perimeter. It's also hard to get it under there on the boards with the glue around the chips, you can remove it but I usually just try to tilt the board and work with it.

Also if you attempt any home reflow method, use an infrared thermometer or even better yet, a thermocouple to monitor temperatures. Too low of a temperature and you have a short-lived reflow. Too high, and you have bridged solder that can only be fixed with a full reball.

Also if you want a reflow, you can send it to me. Or Wilgo on here also has a much better setup than me and can do reflows or reballs.

QUOTE(rilski @ Jun 15 2012, 05:26 PM) View Post

Don't take this the WRONG way, but please tell this to the team-xecuter forums also if this is true.


No offense to them, but they specialize in creating hardware intended to mod/hack the 360. I wouldn't buy their RROD fix kit for the same reason I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes made by a car company. lol. Who can blame them for using their popular name to cash in on a popular "fix" for the RROD though. It's still the fix that is plaguing the internet, even though new information has shown it to be a terrible idea, people still swear by it because it fixed their Xbox for a month or two (or a year if you're really lucky).





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