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Ram Came Off Of Board!


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#1 MuRKRoW

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:29 PM

Yesterday I was working on an Falcon chipset Xbox 360 and it had the red rings of death. The error code that I read out was 0110 which is a cold or bridged solder point on one of the RAM chips (according to this: http://rrodcure.blog...lained-if.html). The only ways I know to fix this is to attempt a reflow of the existing solder or to reball the chip itself. I didn't want to go through the trouble of reballing the chip so I attempted a reflow. I used a heatgun to get each chip hot enough to reflow and still had no luck. Same red rings with 0110 each time. I decided that maybe adding a slight downward force on each chip as it heated up may reconnect a broken solder joint and fix it (unless it was bridged joints). When doing the first chip, the motherboard shifted on my table when adding just the slightest downward force to the chip, causing the whole chip to lift off the board. I've already gone ahead and retinned the pads on the board and chip.

My main question is, where can I find pre-made balls of solder that are the right size for the RAM chips? And also, has anyone else reballed these chips before? I do have a good amount of experience with small electronics and soldering, but am still hesitant and would like to not ruin this Xbox 360. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me! pop.gif

EDIT: Also, I've noticed some Xbox 360's don't even have the ram chips on the underside of the board. Would I be able to just remove the 4 on the underside and have it still function?

Edited by MuRKRoW, 22 August 2012 - 05:31 PM.


#2 Avinitlarge

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:10 PM

Don't use a heat gun, Simple. Heat guns are for stripping paint etc, not repairing electronic equipment, there is no control what so ever over the air flow and temperature.

The chip needs reballing, 0.45mm. it then needs re attaching, simple with the "PROPER" equipment

#3 justathief

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE(MuRKRoW @ Aug 22 2012, 06:29 PM) View Post

...
EDIT: Also, I've noticed some Xbox 360's don't even have the ram chips on the underside of the board. Would I be able to just remove the 4 on the underside and have it still function?


Some of the later revisions of the fat 360 have bigger ram modules on the top instead, using 4x128mb instead of the usual 8x64mb.
To answer your question, No you can not remove the bottom ram's...

#4 MuRKRoW

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:54 AM

QUOTE(Avinitlarge @ Aug 22 2012, 12:10 PM) View Post

Don't use a heat gun, Simple. Heat guns are for stripping paint etc, not repairing electronic equipment, there is no control what so ever over the air flow and temperature.

The chip needs reballing, 0.45mm. it then needs re attaching, simple with the "PROPER" equipment


I don't have upwards of $1000 to spend on a reflow station or the equipment to reball chips. If I can get the balls of solder, then I can make it work. Where is the best place to get these? You seem to have experience with this which is why I'm asking you. And are these the right size balls of solder for the GPU/CPU as well? Thanks

QUOTE(justathief @ Aug 22 2012, 03:33 PM) View Post

Some of the later revisions of the fat 360 have bigger ram modules on the top instead, using 4x128mb instead of the usual 8x64mb.
To answer your question, No you can not remove the bottom ram's...


Okay that's good to know. What's the worst that could happen if I tried removing the other 3 from the bottom? If it's anything like a PC, then I would assume that it will only use what hardware is available. Is there a chance of anything frying on the board if I were to remove the other 3 chips? At this point, I'm almost ready to just throw it away since it would be expensive to have someone reball it for me!

I think since there have been revisions where there are no chips on the bottom and only bare pads where a chip could go, it would be worth a shot. Unless it won't boot without 512MB?

PS: I hope you guys don't think I'm not willing to take your advice. I would if I could afford it! I just want to find a possible easier way to do it and hopefully save money. That Xbox will just be thrown away anyways if it doesn't work.

Edited by MuRKRoW, 23 August 2012 - 04:05 AM.


#5 relaxxx

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:16 PM

0110 is a GPU BGA issue. It might be part of the GPU BGA that leads to one of the RAMs but the problem is under the GPU >99% of the time.

For future reference, unless it is a power (i.e.0001) or NAND (i.e.E71)... odds are grater than 99% that it is a GPU BGA issue.

Also, GPU BGA balls are 0.6mm

Edited by relaxxx, 24 August 2012 - 06:19 PM.


#6 iateshaggy

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 12:28 AM

if you are asking how to reball, then reballing is not for you.

#7 MuRKRoW

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 02:46 AM

QUOTE(relaxxx @ Aug 24 2012, 11:16 AM) View Post

0110 is a GPU BGA issue. It might be part of the GPU BGA that leads to one of the RAMs but the problem is under the GPU >99% of the time.

For future reference, unless it is a power (i.e.0001) or NAND (i.e.E71)... odds are grater than 99% that it is a GPU BGA issue.

Also, GPU BGA balls are 0.6mm


Most of my success in repairing Xbox 360's has come from allowing the GPU to reflow itself so I can agree with the 99% statement. This one was not fixed by that, though which is why I went to the RAM chips. Aren't the RAM chips that are under the GPU heatsink susceptible to problems as well since they are not adequately cooled? Thanks for the info for the BGA balls smile.gif

QUOTE(iateshaggy @ Aug 24 2012, 05:28 PM) View Post

if you are asking how to reball, then reballing is not for you.


I'm a person who strives to learn as much as possible about anything and everything around me. I'd also like to consider myself a perfectionist. I'm sure it's easier to make those remarks instead of making a post that could actually help me and that's okay. If you'd rather sit back and act superior since you know more than me about reballing and reflowing microchips on a stupid silicon board, be my guest. I'm sure there's plenty of other members that can help at this forum which is why I joined in the first place. Please leave my thread!

Edited by MuRKRoW, 25 August 2012 - 02:47 AM.


#8 iateshaggy

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:34 PM

i'm not trying to be mean, its just you need about 10 broken xboxes to reball b4 u actually get one right, and that is after you buy $1000 worth of equipment. but if you want to acquire 10 junk xboxes and $1000 worth of equipment in order to save a console that you can replace for $100, then i will enjoy every moment of helping you out.

#9 shambles1980

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:46 PM

Just to add.
a GPU cannot reflow its self..
It is a myth. The gpu will never reach the temps needed to reflow lead free solder. if your lucky the heat may help expand or contract some aspects of the setup allowing the fissures and cracks in the balls to allow some sort of connection, but honestly it usually only works because of the extra pressure added to the gpu when replace the xclamps. or you add additional paste that gives you slightly more pressure, or the board slightly straightens or warps in your favour.
But all this is simply temporary, and with xclamp replacments in particular all you end up doing is pressing down on the board so it warps more and when it cools you cause more fissueres and cracks. or even pull off pads. So generally your making things worse for a short term fix.

you can buy solder balls from ebay if you really want them.
you can also buy the stencisl so you can line them up properly..
But using a heat gun to reball them is simply going to destroy the components, but if you want to find out for your self I wont stop you.

#10 uienr02

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:51 AM

If you'd rather sit returning and act excellent since you know more than me about reballing and reflowing microchips on a ridiculous rubber panel, be my visitor.

------------
http://www.oilpainting-shop.com

#11 MuRKRoW

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE(uienr02 @ Aug 27 2012, 09:51 PM) View Post

If you'd rather sit returning and act excellent since you know more than me about reballing and reflowing microchips on a ridiculous rubber panel, be my visitor.

------------
http://www.oilpainting-shop.com


"sit returning and act excellent" ? I can't understand you.

I was never trying to act arrogant to anyone in this thread. I just think there's a million ways to skin a cat. I don't think it was right for people to come into a help thread and basically say I would never be able to fix it. I can understand that a reballing / reflowing station would be ideal, but I would think that there's got to be alternative ways. I also don't have a huge chunk of money to invest into a machine that would be a one time use.

Anyways, I've already tossed the whole thing since I received it for free in the first place. Thanks to the couple of people on here who tried to help!

#12 iateshaggy

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:49 PM

you're welcome. btw, the guy you just replied to is just a spambot.




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