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[help] Light Tumbstick Led's


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#1 really_Wacky

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:13 AM

Hi guys,

I want to mod my 2 controllers i allready changed the green ROL lights to red ones.
And i have clear tumbsticks and 8 3mm red LED's i want to put 4 LED's in each controlelr.
2 on each tumbstick i asume i need resistors but what kind of resistors?

Thanks in advance smile.gif

#2 DragonSlayer1987

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:19 AM

Wire them in parallel and them depending on how you wire, always on or rumble activated, you will not need resistor. Use a resistor calculator for exact resistor, I wired 3 3mm red to each thumbstick on one of my controllers and didn't use resistors. I have had no issues with the controller yet.

#3 really_Wacky

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:11 PM

I soldered 2 LED's to a 3v powerpoint but as soon as i put in the battery the led's go on. I know i can solder them to the motor so they go on with the motor, but i just want them to be on when the controller is on smile.gif

Do you know how to do this? Because i dont know mutch about electronics i just soldered some coolrunners but thats about it tongue.gif

Thanks in advance

#4 DragonSlayer1987

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:42 PM

Check the tutorial section for the version controller you have, there should be pin outs there also, worst case you will need a SPDT switch or transistor to control led power.

#5 really_Wacky

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

Pfff i tought this would be way easier tongue.gif Its easier to preform a RGH than soldering 4 leds into a controller haha

This is the version of wired controller i have: LINK

This is the version of the wireless controller i have: LINK

But i cant find anything about the powerpoints that are on when i power the controller. If anyone could help me with this one it would really be great.

I want to ad 2 LED's on each thumbstick on each controller so that would make 4 LED's in each controller.

#6 RDC

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

Your links are reversed for the wired and wireless, but pretty sure I can work around that. wink.gif

It really depends on how you're wanting to light them up as to how you need to go about it. Regardless, a Resistor should be used on an LED no matter the voltage.

There are a ton of online calculators that can do all that math for you. Just input the source voltage (your power supply voltage) the LEDs Forward Voltage (Fv it needs to work) and the Forward Current (mA rating of the LED) and it will do the work for you. Those specs are found in the DataSheet for the LED, or should be listed somewhere from where you purchased them, if not you'll need to guess based on other LEDs of similar types, but always start low.

With the wired controller it's easy enough, as you have a 5v power source from the USB cable. But, it's a constant one, so the LED will be on the whole time the controller is plugged into the 360. That's not really an issue unless it bothers you. The LEDs will last longer than the controller, even running all the time, provided you use the correct Resistor on them.

If you want them to be switched (turn on/off with the controller) then you'll need to use an NPN Transistor and a couple of Resistors or an OptoCoupler and Resistor and wire it up a different way.

The wireless controller is more work as it has no switched power source high enough that can drive the LEDs. You can either use an NPN Transistor and a couple of Resistors to make one, or an Optocoupler and a Resistor.

http://forums.xbox-s...o...09315&st=15 - Transistor method, though you'd wire the Base to the Analog Voltage line of the controller on that CG2.

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=703639 - OptoCoupler method.

You can do the same thing with the wired controller and a Transistor or OC to make a switched source for it also.


#7 really_Wacky

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:30 AM

I just went to the store told him i wanted to solder 2 or 4 LED's to a 5volt suply and he gave me some 68ohm resistors i added 1 to each led and soldered 2 in the wired controller witch is more then enough light i tought i would need 2 but i would be blind then biggrin.gif

But i dont understand anything they say in the links you gave me lol tongue.gif Its like chinese haha

https://fbcdn-sphoto...978364625_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphoto...496316405_o.jpg

Edited by RDC, 03 October 2012 - 12:52 AM.


#8 RDC

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:02 AM

1024 x 768 pic size is more than large enough, any larger messes with the forum layout and most people don't use 27"+ monitors for posting on forums. Gonna have to learn a new language, least some of it, if you're wanting to do any more than that simple wired up to a power source LED job there. wink.gif


68ohm is a bit low IMHO for the typical Red LED and a 5v source, I'd guesstimate those should be around 150ohm or so. I'd Series up a couple of those 68ohm ones so you (effectively) had a 136ohm Resistor on there, or just stick another one on the other lead of the LED, it's all the same electrically either way there. That will knock the brightness down a good bit also. Probably keep them from dying early too I'd imagine, that 68ohm just doesn't seem right and is the value I'd use for a 3.3v source on the average Red LED.



Edited by RDC, 03 October 2012 - 01:04 AM.


#9 really_Wacky

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:26 AM

But i added both wires to the same 5Volt source doesnt that devide the 5 volts trough the 2 LED's? making it 2.5volt so the 68ohm resistors would be enough?

Maybe i should watch some basic electronic video's first, because i can follow some basic instructions but i have no clue what im doing yesterday i smoked 2 LED's because i only added 1 68ohm resistor to the 2 LED's they had the same negative wire and the same positive now they each have a different wire and resistor but the same source.

Im doing this because i frying the LED is the worst that can happen. If it would really harm the controller i would not be doing this.

Im going to search the full specs of the LED's when i am at work.

Edited by really_Wacky, 03 October 2012 - 09:28 AM.


#10 RDC

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:54 AM

Yeah, lets start with what wired in Parallel and Series really means with LEDs first. wink.gif

Parallel - Both LED Anodes (the +) together and both Cathodes (the -) together is Parallel wiring. That means each one gets the full 5v, but they draw twice as much current (need more power) than just a single LED would. So you're giving each LED 5v, not 2.5v, and each one needs a certain amount of current to work and that adds up with the more LEDs you add in Parallel.

Example: You have that 5v source there from the controller. Those 2 LEDs in Parallel is pretty much the same for Voltage as a single LED is, each will get 5v from the controller, but the Current draw adds up. If you use a single Resistor on each LED (the correct way of doing it) then the value is based on the 5v and the current draw of the single LED. If you would want to use 1 Resistor for both LEDs in that Parallel setup you'd have to calculate it based on the combined current draw of both LEDs. That's not recommended as one LED can fry or open up and throw the whole thing off.


Series - If you wanted to give each LED half the voltage from a higher source like that, then you'd have to wire them in series to make the LEDs voltage requirement higher. One LED Anode to the other ones Cathode, + to -, like batteries in a flashlight, so you have a single + and - connection for the 2 LEDs to go to the power/ground connections. They also draw the same amount of current as just 1 LED in this setup, but that method isn't recommended as each LED isn't exactly the same, so one is going to get slightly more current than the other one and it can fail sooner, but it can be done that way. A Resistor still applies here also (it always should with LEDs) but it's based on the added voltage of the LEDs instead of the single value. How you have it wired right now is Parallel, not Series.

Example: The same 5v source, the same 2 LEDs, but since they are in series the voltage needed for them adds up. (say 2v per LED for this example) so you effectively have a single 4v LED there. The current stays the same in this series setup, so that 4v and whatever the single LED current value are what are used to calculate the Resistor value. This should only be done with LEDs of the same ratings and from the same batch. So if you get 6 LEDs rated at 2v all at once you could series them up to run off a 12v power source, since 2v x 6 = 12, but wiring them in Parallel with each one having it's own Resistor is still the best method for that kind of thing.


The formula for figuring out the Resistor value is R = (VS - VL) / I

R - Resistor (The value of the Resistor in Ohms)
VS - Voltage Souce (The power supply for your LEDs, 5v in the case of that wired controller)
VL - LED Forward Voltage (Depends on the color and how the LED was made)
I - Current the LED needs (Which is given in mA (milliAmps) for LEDs, so divide by 1000 to get the right number to use here, Example: For a 20mA LED you'd use 0.02)

So for that controller's 5v and a single Resistor that's, lets say 2v, and rated at 20mA, using that formula you get this..

Resistor value = (5vs - 2.1vl) / 0.02mA

5v - 2.1v = 2.9v

2.9v / 0.02mA = 145

So 145 for your Resistor value in Ohms, which is closest to the standard 150ohm value. Always go up to the closest value sized Resistor, going down will give it more current than it can handle and shorten it's lifespan.

To figure out what Watt rating the Resistor should be, you use the formula W = A x V

W - Watts (Power rating)
A - Current (The mA rating from the LED)
V - Voltage (The voltage drop across the Resistor, or what's left over after subtracting the LED voltage from the source voltage)

So fr0m that above formula you then get..

Watts = 0.02mA x 2.9v

0.02 x 2.9 = 0.058Watts or 58milliWatts

A 1W Resistor is 1000mW (1000 milliWatts), so it's more than big enough, as are a 1/4W (0.25 or 250mW) or even a 1/8W (0.125 or 125mW) since you only need something that can handle 0.058W in this example. Here also, the next highest rating should be used as a lower one will burn up sooner.


Have a read here for some more info on some of it, and if Google can't help find what you're looking for, then you're probably not looking for help on Google. wink.gif

http://www.kpsec.fre...ponents/led.htm

Don't let all that math discourage you either, there are loads of online calculators that will do all of that for you if you want. This is just one of the many, many examples out there. http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz


#11 really_Wacky

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:41 PM

Wow thanks you really took your time for that post.

Its still a little difficult to understand you said:

QUOTE
I - Current the LED needs (Which is given in mA (milliAmps) for LEDs, so divide by 1000 to get the right number to use here, Example: For a 20mA LED you'd use 0.02)

So for that controller's 5v and a single Resistor that's, lets say 2v, and rated at 20mA, using that formula you get this..


Why do you have to devide it by 1000 what do you get when you devide it or is that just the way to messure it.

Then the second line the resistor voltage is unknown right? the only thing i know about the resistors is that they are 68ohm.

I have PDF with the LED specs: http://www.sendspace.com/file/qpdjif (The Red ones)

So if i understand you correct or i need to wire each LED to a 3volt source with a 68ohm resistor or i need a stronger resistor?

They will be less bright right when i have a higher resistor? Now they are the right density but they are shining to hard so they will die soon? Or are we speaking about years

I will read some more this weekend i dont have that mutch time now, its way more complicated then i expected. On the calqulator i need to give "Source voltage, diode forward voltage and diode forward current (mA) " Isnt the diode forward voltage and the source voltage the same :s


Anyway thanks for the help, i just have 0 expirience. Guess i have some reading to do smile.gif

#12 DragonSlayer1987

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:01 AM

RDC's explanation is perfect, just re-read a few times. When it is something you are not experienced in sometimes trial and error is the best way to learn. Good Luck

#13 RDC

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

The LED is rated for 20mA, but if you plug 20 into that equation you're going to get the wrong value Resistor, because it's 20mA, which is 0.020 of 1000, which you get by dividing 20mA by 1000, 20 / 1000 = 0.02. Which was explained in the link. Just use an online LED calculator, the math part isn't for everyone, it's just nice to know how to do it if you ever need.

I'd have already put another 68ohm Resistor on each of those LEDs. I doubt they're going to last you years being driven with a 68ohm as that's giving each one more current than it can handle. If you have both LEDs in Parallel the you could use just one 68ohm Resistor for them both, but even then it's still going to over drive them some.

Source voltage and LED Forward voltage are not the same. Source voltage is the voltage you're using to power the LEDs, 5v in the case of that wired controller. The Forward voltage is the voltage the LED needs to work, it's Vf in the DataSheet there, which is 2v for that LED, provided that's the correct one. For most Red LEDs it's right around 2v anyway, so it's a good Vf number to use even if you're not sure of the rating.


#14 really_Wacky

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:40 PM

That makes sense but when i use the "LED series/parallel array wizard" it says i need to input in mA so i put in these value's

Source voltage: 5v
diode forward voltage: 2
diode forward current (mA): 20
number of LEDs in your array: 2


QUOTE
The wizard thinks arrays with just two LEDs are cool too.
each 56 ohm resistor dissipates 22.4 mW
...


So i dont understand why it would say its only 56ohm

Rightnow they are exactly soldered like this red and black are wires smile.gif If replacing the Resistors with 150ohm ones that would be the easiest solutions right they cost almost nothing so i will just do that smile.gif

IPB Image

Before it was soldered like this i asume they are both parallel since the + is never connected to -

IPB Image


This this is really simple compaired to what i will have to do with the wired controller, your explaination is very good tough never would have guessed that electronics where that complicated.

Edited by really_Wacky, 04 October 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#15 RDC

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:06 AM

You should pay a little bit more attention there. That array is a series/parallel tool, and the answer it's giving you is for a series setup, not a parallel one.


You have several options for wiring those up with what you already have there..

You could do them in Series like the array wizard came up with and use a single 68ohm Resistor you already have. They would be slightly under driven, but still fine.

You could Parallel them both up and use a single 68ohm on them, like your second pic there, though they would still be slightly over driven.

If you have a couple more 68ohm Resistors you can put one more on each of the LEDs, on the ground leads or wire them in series with the existing ones, so you have 136ohms on each one, again still slightly over driven.

If you're just going to get new Resistors, then put a 150ohm Resistor on each LED and Parallel them up, as in your first pic there.




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