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Largest Hard Drive Still 137gb?


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#196 MetaliFreak

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:10 PM

The next step, soft-RAID!



I kid I kid...

#197 MaXa

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (AsTnBoMb @ Aug 31 2003, 06:01 PM)
I dunno oz_paulb, I wouldnt underestimate the hard drive companies, they sure have come a long way very very fast.

But my money always takes longer smile.gif

#198 Flagg3

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:28 PM

QUOTE (Schweino @ Aug 31 2003, 02:56 PM)

Get the 5400 rpm since it stays cooler. The xbox doesnt make any use of the 8 mb cache and the 7200 rpm at all, so it makes no sense getting the WD

Why do people still believe this? The xbox will ABSOLUTELY benefit from a faster hard drive with more cache!

Both of these features help increase access times. While it's true that you will still be limited by the ATA-33 transfer rate, that only affects maximum sustained throughput.

I believe this myth has perpetuated because of the fact that faster hard drives don't really offer much benefit for people who are upgrading PVRs.

So you will definitely see a very noticeable improvement in performance with a faster hard drive. As for the heat issue that really depends. In general, the xbox doesn't have any problems with overheating so this isn't that big of a concern. However I have seen some boxes which tend to run hotter than others. My boxes always average around 120 degrees farenheight cpu temp even with a 7200rpm drive. If your box runs around 140 degrees before upgrading the drive then you might want to opt for a cooler drive. Although I have seen boxes that run perfectly stable with a cpu temp of 160 degrees, the hotter your box runs the shorter it's lifespan will most likely be.

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#199 NightL1fe

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE (Flagg3 @ Aug 31 2003, 01:28 PM)
QUOTE (Schweino @ Aug 31 2003, 02:56 PM)

Get the 5400 rpm since it stays cooler. The xbox doesnt make any use of the 8 mb cache and the 7200 rpm at all, so it makes no sense getting the WD

Why do people still believe this? The xbox will ABSOLUTELY benefit from a faster hard drive with more cache!

Both of these features help increase access times. While it's true that you will still be limited by the ATA-33 transfer rate, that only affects maximum sustained throughput.

I believe this myth has perpetuated because of the fact that faster hard drives don't really offer much benefit for people who are upgrading PVRs.

So you will definitely see a very noticeable improvement in performance with a faster hard drive. As for the heat issue that really depends. In general, the xbox doesn't have any problems with overheating so this isn't that big of a concern. However I have seen some boxes which tend to run hotter than others. My boxes always average around 120 degrees farenheight cpu temp even with a 7200rpm drive. If your box runs around 140 degrees before upgrading the drive then you might want to opt for a cooler drive. Although I have seen boxes that run perfectly stable with a cpu temp of 160 degrees, the hotter your box runs the shorter it's lifespan will most likely be.

Flagg

very true indeed.. i have noticed the 8mb caches access files and games a tad bit fast..correct me if i'm wrong but i thought the xbox will shut itself down after 140f-145f?
how could you see a 160f xbox running stable ?

#200 heinrich

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:50 PM

From my understanding the xbox shut down at 71C, or 159.8F.

I concur that a 7200rpm, 8mb chache drive means better seek times, and overall better performance. Especially on large, fragmented drives.

#201 crumb

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (AsTnBoMb @ Aug 31 2003, 06:01 PM)
I dunno oz_paulb, I wouldnt underestimate the hard drive companies, they sure have come a long way very very fast.

The hard drive manufacturers won't have 2.2TB in 3.5" enclosures by 2005.

#202 NightL1fe

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 05:10 PM

QUOTE (heinrich @ Aug 31 2003, 01:50 PM)
From my understanding the xbox shut down at 71C, or 159.8F.

I concur that a 7200rpm, 8mb chache drive means better seek times, and overall better performance. Especially on large, fragmented drives.

RIGHT! so how the hell is Flagg seeing xboxs running stable at 160F?

#203 GuySmily

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 08:19 PM

Actually, the xbox shuts off at 90 celcius. It's happened to me twice.. fan problems.

I have some "Quantum Fireball" drive.. It gets as hot as a fireball (the case of the xbox actually gets very hot.. and the vent in the back is like a heater), but as long as the fan ran the system was fine.


Great work on all this development. I'm putting off purchasing my second hard drive until this is released.

#204 alphaman

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 09:01 PM

Good work Paul! jester.gif I'd love to do Beta! I'm just kinda wondering how hard it would be to apply this fix when it's available?

#205 GuySmily

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 09:08 PM

Apparently it's going to be as simple as a checkbox in xbtool (or radio buttons, but..). And also as he said, hopefully bios developers will eventually implement this into their own bioses, but in my opinion it sounds like with so many options it may stay as a patch to be compatible for more users. I guess it will just depend on the demand for each option.

#206 oz_paulb

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (crumb @ Aug 31 2003, 05:57 PM)
QUOTE (oz_paulb @ Aug 31 2003, 04:22 PM)
Yes, 2.2TB is the theoretical max drive capacity (since we're only using 32bits of the possible 48bits of LBA48 addressing).

Q: Is that a result of the BIOS accepting a long as a parameter in it's disk functions?

Could it possibly accept a structure that is 48-bits in total? That would allow drives up to 144,115 TB or 144 PB.

Throughout the kernel, a 32bit sector number is used for low-level access.

To change it to use something larger would make it incompatible with existing apps.

If we start filling up 2.2TB drives, and it becomes a problem, I'll take another look at expanding it past 32bits. wink.gif

- Paulb


#207 XanTium

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE (oz_paulb @ Aug 31 2003, 04:19 PM)
QUOTE (oblox @ Aug 31 2003, 10:09 AM)
Hell there's a though how about remapping all the Partitions in the bios!!!! A dual boot system ahoy?

That's really a great idea - you could have multiple sets of Xbox system partitions (drive C:), and use a partition editor to choose which one should be 'active' for the next boot.

I haven't tried it, but there's no reason why the standard Xbox partitions can't be moved around/put > 137GB. The offsets/sizes were all hard-coded into the BIOS before - now they are just entries in the partition table. The only thing that is 'hard-coded' is the partition numbers - (example: the 2nd entry in the partition table ("partition2") is always the Xbox system drive (C:)). That 2nd entry can be changed to point to any place on the drive. As I said, I haven't tried this, but it should work.

- Paulb

I like that idea ...

Would make it possible to have a fully retail C/E drive to play on xbox live (so even if MS scans HD they won't detect anything (unless they go raw axx the drive ofcourse)).
And if you boot your xbox with the hacked bios you get other C/E/F drives with edited stuff.


#208 dmsdude90

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 10:23 PM

this is a little of topic but what does live actually look for when it does its search for a mod chip /dashboard

#209 oz_paulb

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 11:01 PM

QUOTE (XanTium @ Aug 31 2003, 11:56 PM)
QUOTE (oz_paulb @ Aug 31 2003, 04:19 PM)
QUOTE (oblox @ Aug 31 2003, 10:09 AM)
Hell there's a though how about remapping all the Partitions in the bios!!!! A dual boot system ahoy?

That's really a great idea - you could have multiple sets of Xbox system partitions (drive C:), and use a partition editor to choose which one should be 'active' for the next boot.

I haven't tried it, but there's no reason why the standard Xbox partitions can't be moved around/put > 137GB. The offsets/sizes were all hard-coded into the BIOS before - now they are just entries in the partition table. The only thing that is 'hard-coded' is the partition numbers - (example: the 2nd entry in the partition table ("partition2") is always the Xbox system drive (C:)). That 2nd entry can be changed to point to any place on the drive. As I said, I haven't tried this, but it should work.

- Paulb

I like that idea ...

Would make it possible to have a fully retail C/E drive to play on xbox live (so even if MS scans HD they won't detect anything (unless they go raw axx the drive ofcourse)).
And if you boot your xbox with the hacked bios you get other C/E/F drives with edited stuff.

It seems like this would be possible, but it depends on what live looks for.

If they do raw access to the drive ("\Device\Harddisk0\partition0"), then they can scan the entire drive, and all bets are off.

- Paulb


#210 EvilWays

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 11:24 PM

That's why ppl should keep their stock HDD. Add a power switch if possible, swap drives if necessary.




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