Games To Ship In Dual Formats Options

[Azadar]

Actually quite easy to do, the Application would check your Video Card settings to determine which version you would be playing. IE CHanging your resoultion and dropping your settings. That would be possible via a script so if you dont have the X2 the settings would be downgraded to run on the current Xbox without any user intervention.

Now how a xbox could read HD-DVD format would be your problem.

Azadar

[mikeandbandit]

Actually quite easy to do, the Application would check your Video Card settings to determine which version you would be playing. IE CHanging your resoultion and dropping your settings. That would be possible via a script so if you dont have the X2 the settings would be downgraded to run on the current Xbox without any user intervention.

Now how a xbox could read HD-DVD format would be your problem.

Azadar

good point i forgot, the first layer can still be readable on the first layer of a standard dvd player, so they could technically have both the hd and the standard version on the same disc.

[whet1134]

good point i forgot, the first layer can still be readable on the first layer of a standard dvd player, so they could technically have both the hd and the standard version on the same disc.

That would certainly be spiffy if they put the DVD game on one side and the HD version on the other. Then again, people will be confused as to which side to use. (EDIT: I forgot about people who are farsighted and couldn't read the ring-label... No offense meant to you if you are!) "Beware of stupid people in large numbers." I like it... now if only we can get MS to DO it.

This post has been edited by whet1134: Feb 15 2005, 04:37 PM

[Achtung]

How could you ever think this could be possible. Do you know the cost involved to do all the things you are mentioning. Aslo what company would want to split there own install base between two systems and cause publishers to code two different versions of the same game with two different dev kits for the same bloody system. They would all go bankrupt.

[FallsInc]

well, while there may be a system without a hard drive, i beleive that MS will use the rest of the systems as the same... too many problems... they wont have tri core 3.5ghz procs, they wont have a pc version (maybe a media center version, with a card reader or something... MAYBE!)

most of the xbox 2 rummors are just that... runmors... i've been following the PC world for the past 5 years, an tri-core will not be mainstream enough to be in a game console in one year (unless you want a 1000 dollar xbox 2...). we dont have dual core now, let along adding one more... what were the new XDK's? sinlge proc G5's... not dual.. which would be closer to a tri core environment..

[whet1134]

How could you ever think this could be possible. Do you know the cost involved to do all the things you are mentioning. Aslo what company would want to split there own install base between two systems and cause publishers to code two different versions of the same game with two different dev kits for the same bloody system. They would all go bankrupt.

I *THINK* XNA is a tool for doing just said operation for coding (I'm not a programmer so I don't claim to know details about XNA). The game is made for the higher end system and XNA downgrades it. You don't need 2 different dev-kits. Developers would go bonkers. And MS wouldn't be splitting their user base because people who can't afford $300-400 for a system could have a $200 system. The 'extras' would be superfluous. The cost of production for HD is not high anyway. The discs were designed to ease transition from DVD to HD-DVD... the same equipment is used, it's just upgraded a tad.

[m_hael]

what were the new XDK's? sinlge proc G5's... not dual.. which would be closer to a tri core environment..

1. XDK is a SOFTWARE package.. NOT hardware
2. The pictures you've seen of the Devkits we CURRENTLY use are a DUAL G5 not single proc
3. The PS2 uses a chipset that WAS NOT mainstream when it came out.. and guess what.. it STILL isn't mainstream... PC is limited by its own birthright.. Consoles are NOT
4. Shut up.

[Achtung]

I *THINK* XNA is a tool for doing just said operation for coding (I'm not a programmer so I don't claim to know details about XNA).  The game is made for the higher end system and XNA downgrades it.  You don't need 2 different dev-kits.  Developers would go bonkers.  And MS wouldn't be splitting their user base because people who can't afford $300-400 for a system could have a $200 system.  The 'extras' would be superfluous.  The cost of production for HD is not high anyway.  The discs were designed to ease transition from DVD to HD-DVD... the same equipment is used, it's just upgraded a tad.

No XNA is a development kit that makes tasks like coding trees and little things like that alot less time consuming. Also its a language of code that can be easly translated from PC to Xbox or Xbox To PC making that transition almost effortless.

It was never created to develop a high end version of a game on Xbox and then down grading it for another version of Xbox. That would be totall waste of time and money in transition cost for the same product!.

I am not saying there won't be different version of Xbox, there probibly will but the difference will be in features it offers and cosmetics not in the core of its graphics and processing. That would limit its install base on either version and developers would drop one over the other due to a low number of units thus it not being cost viable.

[mikeandbandit]

No XNA is a development kit that makes tasks like coding trees and little things like that alot less time consuming. Also its a language of code that can be easly translated from PC to Xbox or Xbox To PC making that transition almost effortless.

It was never created to develop a high end version of a game on Xbox and then down grading it for another version of Xbox. That would be totall waste of time and money in transition cost for the same product!.

I am not saying there won't be different version of Xbox, there probibly will but the difference will be in features it offers and cosmetics not in the core of its graphics and processing. That would limit its install base on either version and developers would drop one over the other due to a low number of units thus it not being cost viable.

ok XNA is NOT for coding on that level you speak of, to put it simple it allows developers to build a game ONCE and then port it over to another platform (pc, gc, xb, ps2) with very little effort. currently when "porting" a game you basically are required to rebuild the game from the ground up, due to hardawre differences, which can be VERY time consuming.

I am glad someone FINALLY understands the concept of having multiple xbox versions means. It cannot divide the user base, because HDD support and HD games would be extras, and would not disturb core play. so those who want solely a gaming console would get it, those who want a bit more for their buck will get it too, and those wh want a full-fledged pc also have that option. saying multiple versions of x2 will divide the community is like saying xbox live divides the xbox community. people without live still enjoy the same exact game, but just not all the little features that really set xbox apart.

[lordvader129]

i would imagine xb2 will all have hddvd drives, but the games will be available in dvd format or hd-dvd format (since hd-dvd will likely run more expensive than standard dvd and the only peopel that can take full advantage of it woul dbe those with hdtvs)

this would also eliminate the problem of hd-dvd xb2 games not being compatible with the dvd version of the console (there wouldnt be a dvd version of the console)


actually i dont think they are gonna do anything like this, 1: it woudl confuse people and anger them (what happens if you get an xb2, and 10 games in dvd format, then buy an hdtv and want the hd-dvd versions? i suppose they could offer a trade-in program, but still) 2: they will just make all hd-dvd format and force people to give them more money

[mikeandbandit]

i would imagine xb2 will all have hddvd drives, but the games will be available in dvd format or hd-dvd format (since hd-dvd will likely run more expensive than standard dvd and the only peopel that can take full advantage of it woul dbe those with hdtvs)

this would also eliminate the problem of hd-dvd xb2 games not being compatible with the dvd version of the console (there wouldnt be a dvd version of the console)
actually i dont think they are gonna do anything like this, 1: it woudl confuse people and anger them (what happens if you get an xb2, and 10 games in dvd format, then buy an hdtv and want the hd-dvd versions? i suppose they could offer a trade-in program, but still) 2: they will just make all hd-dvd format and force people to give them more money

again, let me explain the market strategy, hd-dvd drivers will cost an arm and a leg upon release, they wont even be available for consumer purchase until fall. let alone mass producing them as standard equipment. what in effect will happen if releasing with hd-dvd with a HIGH price tag, is gamers will, 1) wait for the price to come down, or 2) wait til the ps3 releases a year later and then decide which to purchase. meaning much of their stock will be sitting on shelves until then, which means lost money. for those who remember the $99 rumor, i can see that taking place with HD games where it includes extra content as well, however the core game remain exactly the same and hence compatible with other none hd copies. (for internet play). 2) they would never make them all HD-DVD unless thats the only way they can fit the content in it, but they can just release them on multiple dvds. they would Always prefere to ship on dvd as its a cheaper medium, and lower price tags increase sales. basically if this is true, hd versions will only ship as a bonus to consumers, or as neccesity. and not all games will have hd versions, likely only blockbuster titles, similar to the collectors edition of popular titles.

[whet1134]

I am glad someone FINALLY understands the concept of having multiple xbox versions means. It cannot divide the user base, because HDD support and HD games would be extras, and would not disturb core play. 

Was this directed at me? I'm just making sure I understand correctly.

this would also eliminate the problem of hd-dvd xb2 games not being compatible with the dvd version of the console (there wouldnt be a dvd version of the console)
actually i dont think they are gonna do anything like this, 1: it woudl confuse people and anger them (what happens if you get an xb2, and 10 games in dvd format, then buy an hdtv and want the hd-dvd versions? i suppose they could offer a trade-in program, but still) 2: they will just make all hd-dvd format and force people to give them more money

Let me explain this slowly... have you ever gotten a DVD that has the movie on one side and special features on the other? Yes? Good, now remove the special features......and add the HD game leaving the DVD game on the other side...
There is nothing confusing about it... it would all be one disc.

The DVD consortium is pushing this option so that consumers who don't want to buy HD-DVD yet can still have their DVD movie and won't need to rebuy all those movies when they do decide to upgrade to HD. It's called a transition and MS may be thinking of employing the same concept.

again, let me explain the market strategy, hd-dvd drivers will cost an arm and a leg upon release, they wont even be available for consumer purchase until fall. let alone mass producing them as standard equipment. what in effect will happen if releasing with hd-dvd with a HIGH price tag, is gamers will, 1) wait for the price to come down, or 2) wait til the ps3 releases a year later and then decide which to purchase. meaning much of their stock will be sitting on shelves until then, which means lost money. for those who remember the $99 rumor, i can see that taking place with HD games where it includes extra content as well, however the core game remain exactly the same and hence compatible with other none hd copies. (for internet play). 2) they would never make them all HD-DVD unless thats the only way they can fit the content in it, but they can just release them on multiple dvds. they would Always prefere to ship on dvd as its a cheaper medium, and lower price tags increase sales. basically if this is true, hd versions will only ship as a bonus to consumers, or as neccesity. and not all games will have hd versions, likely only blockbuster titles, similar to the collectors edition of popular titles.

The more and more I think about this... I think no HD-DVD is better for the consumer and MS in the long run. MS won't lose money on premature technology. The games would cost less that their PS3 brethren. And if MS did decide to go HD-DVD when it eventually wins (I have less and less faith in Sony's Blu-Ray the more and more I think...ironic I guess?) they could just offer the Xbox HD. So in effect, this holiday season, we would get Xbox2 Basic. Then next holiday season, when HD is good and planted in the American movie budget, Xbox2 HD comes out and wins. Then your point about overstock would fit in. I'm so eager to hear about this at E3...!

[throwingks]

I hope games take up as much space as you are suggesting. That means they would be beautiful beyond my imagination. But, I don't think they will. HD-DVD is not going to be needed. There are only a handful of games on Xbox1 that use both layers of a DVD-9. Adding extra content does not make the game better. Of all of the games that require a DVD-9 maybe 1 is fun to play. The only reason the self proclaimed best game ever made is on a DVD-9 is so people can play on live. Get rid of the Live files and the game fits on a DVD-5. Plus, just make a double sided DVD-9. that is 4 layers of disk information on one disk. Or include 2 DVD-9 disks if the game has that much content.

I think HD-DVD is too expensive to use for too little of advancement. Just like the progressive scan DVD player for Xbox1. Xbox1 can do it but there is a heating issue. Not worth the money fixing it at the time.

Edit - I forgot till just now, MS already has HD-WMV that fits on a standard DVD-9
link here
I don't think it would be too hard to use that on an Xbox2. Check out the minimum specs for both 720p and 1080i pretty close to the rumors of Xbox2.

This post has been edited by throwingks: Feb 16 2005, 05:48 PM

[m_hael]

one thing that has NOT yet been discussed here...

if a NONE HD game costs $50 and you guys want HD textures.. meaning FAR more information, thus taking FAR more time to author... the time difference for a doubling of dimensions is roughly 4x... are you gonna want to pay 4x the price for it ?

nothing in this world is free.. and the price of games has stayed the same for YEARS whilst the cost of producing them has escalated radically.

[whet1134]

one thing that has NOT yet been discussed here...

if a NONE HD game costs $50 and you guys want HD textures.. meaning FAR more information, thus taking FAR more time to author... the time difference for a doubling of dimensions is roughly 4x... are you gonna want to pay 4x the price for it ?

nothing in this world is free.. and the price of games has stayed the same for YEARS whilst the cost of producing them has escalated radically.

To play devil's advocate... maybe we were getting scalped prior to now? Plus, gaming was not as rampant as today. Noone can tell me that Sonic the Hedgehog 2 would have sold 6 million copies. Honestly, the only reasons that corporations hike their prices is to make stock holders happy. Seriously, why does EA need to pull in a 2 Billion dollar profit? Why don't they funnel that into something else like paying their employees for their overtime... or making their games cheaper so they can sell more of them?