Is Anyone Seriously Trying To Get A Full Windows Kernel Running?, seriously, i'd do it myself if i were legally allowed Options

[Trav41514]

Both require NTLDR to bootstrap themselves (which won't work without modification)

thats the plan ;-)

why does the xbox lock up when reading certain parts of the pci bus?

[veeper]

thats the plan ;-)

why does the xbox lock up when reading certain parts of the pci bus?

You should really take a look at the xbox-linux wiki, there is a great explanation to this and many other things about porting an os to the box, I remember...

[torne]

thats the plan ;-)

So you're going to write a new loader, but you don't understand why it'd be hard to port DOS, or why you don't need to run TA to get Embedded to work? You have a lot of work ahead, methinks...

why does the xbox lock up when reading certain parts of the pci bus?

Because the bus redesign (after Intel bribed..err..persuaded them to use an Intel cpu instead of an AMD cpu) was a badly done rush job?

The xbox-linux sources are a good place to find the differences. There aren't many - once the OS image is loaded it's not hard to finish the port. It's writing the loader that's going to be fiddly

[SupeRdUPErBlakE]

NERDS! =D

The vpiu address isn't valid when tampered in the nv.xgg!

Use your head, not your hands!

[windowsex]

You're confusing several issues. You would need to write a *totally new* loader, from scratch. It could be a default.xbe, if you wanted. But, you aren't going to be able to use the code from ntos\boot to do it; that code is assuming it has a legacy PC environment to use to bootstrap itself. That code would be a handy reference to what you needed to do, of course, if you had the legal permission to use it.

Let's not bother writing a new boot loader as of yet - we can later if absolutely necessary but let's try to get a simulacrum BIOS working (as a default.xbe) and attempt to run NTLDR over this - we can go from there...

This would take the same approach which was used to get Mac's to boot Windows.

I understand the legal implications but from a theoretical point of view is there any reason why Insignia's SoftPC Code (and/or real Microsoft NT based NTVDM/MVDM or even Bochs/BAMBIOS source would not work - to create a Default.XBE Simulacrum BIOS which the real NTLDR would boot from ???

We could even go as far as creating a simulacrum BIOS then running a EFI application on top (giving a full UEFI environment) which would bring up Windows.

If anyone is interested in this my email address is now colesexmyer@gmail.com

I have the money and time and capability to do this with everyone's help.

I will even go as far as setting up a sourceforge project.

PS: If I have posted any similar comments on this form they will now be viewed from this thread because I wanted to reply to Torne's comments on creating a new boot loader executable from nothing.

[torne]

Let's not bother writing a new boot loader as of yet - we can later if absolutely necessary but let's try to get a simulacrum BIOS working (as a default.xbe) and attempt to run NTLDR over this - we can go from there...

This would take the same approach which was used to get Mac's to boot Windows.

I understand the legal implications but from a theoretical point of view is there any reason why Insignia's SoftPC Code (and/or real Microsoft NT based NTVDM/MVDM or even Bochs/BAMBIOS source would not work - to create a Default.XBE Simulacrum BIOS which the real NTLDR would boot from ???

If you can get a BIOS to run on the Xbox hardware, I expect it would prove quite useful. No "simulacrum" is required - the Xbox is a PC, there's no fakery

NTDETECT and/or the kernel are still going to hang the box when they scan the PCI bus, I note. That dratted bus implementation bug is pretty much a permanent barrier to running any modern PC OS unmodified.

You seem to be confusing several things, though. SoftPC and Bochs are both x86 emulators, which doesn't at all do what's needed - there's a million-and-one ways to run whatever OS you like under emulation already. Their BIOS emulation is unlikely to be portable - it undoubtedly depends on the functionality of the emulator. NTVDM is an x86 real-mode virtualiser - we have a perfectly good real mode on the CPU already, and BIOS calls under NTVDM are handled by protected-mode Windows code using high-level OS functionality. You aren't going to run NTLDR out of virtual x86 mode. BAMBIOS is an EFI application that emulates a PC BIOS, which also doesn't help you much as we have no EFI to get hardware support from.

All you want is to drop the CPU back to real mode and start running a real BIOS which uses old-fashioned direct hardware access to do everything.

We could even go as far as creating a simulacrum BIOS then running a EFI application on top (giving a full UEFI environment) which would bring up Windows.

EFI seems somewhat pointless; NTLDR can boot just fine from a vaguely PC-compatible BIOS, there's nothing gained by emulating EFI.

[Micjohvan]

Im not here to actually help with this discussion but to provide moral support.

I have waited long for Windows 95+ on the xbox running like a normal PC.

I dont have the required skills to help you fellas out but let me tell you, if you pull something like this off you would be heros.

I love the Xbox and because of what it can do its now my favorite console of all time. This is the last great frontier for the black monster.

I would give my left nut to see the words XBOXS RUNNING WINDOWS across Maxconsoles front page or somewhere similer.

This is what is needed to refuel the XBOX fan base.

As for legal issues you have to think. Any thing under Windows XP is dead to microsoft. I doubt they would waste their time to even send you a letter about it. Also the Xbox is dead.
I think you should go for it and make your mark on console histroy. I will be glad to help you in any way I can although thats not saying much.

I hope someday this becomes a reality, coding for it would be so easy we could see true homebrew games that would run on windows and have the controls mapped to the xbox controller.

Anyway please make this a reality if it can be done! I salute you

[silentnite2608]

I understand that you can't get xp running on the xbox
What about Windows Fundamentals?
Or I heard tiny Xp?
I think I going to try this.

[torne]

I understand that you can't get xp running on the xbox
What about Windows Fundamentals?
Or I heard tiny Xp?
I think I going to try this.

This is unrelated to the topic being discussed here The reasons you can't run Windows natively on the Xbox are unrelated to how much RAM or other resources are required (the OS simply expects things to exist which don't, like a PC BIOS).

If you want to run Windows under QEMU on Linux, then yes, using one of the cut-down versions of XP is a good plan, but that's nothing to do with this topic.

[silentnite2608]

Sorry just putting out my idea.
Will try to find right topic to post in.
Also i think it would be neat to have windows on a xbox just for fun for old games.

[torne]

Sorry just putting out my idea.
Will try to find right topic to post in.
Also i think it would be neat to have windows on a xbox just for fun for old games.

You don't really need to..

Many people have Win98 happily running under QEMU on Linux, which usually suffices for playing old games. A sufficiently cut-down XP also is known to work under QEMU, though slowly due to the lack of RAM. Afraid it's not new

[WindowsOCManage]

This is unrelated to the topic being discussed here The reasons you can't run Windows natively on the Xbox are unrelated to how much RAM or other resources are required (the OS simply expects things to exist which don't, like a PC BIOS).

If you want to run Windows under QEMU on Linux, then yes, using one of the cut-down versions of XP is a good plan, but that's nothing to do with this topic.

...I am very sorry for the bump, but all hardware communication through to the hardware links to Ntoskrnl.exe and Hal.dll, mostly hal.dll though, now if I'm correct, the XBOX has a framebuffer devie right? If so, is it at address 0000:b000 or 0xb000, if so, one can just bitblt output directly to that framebuffer, allowing simple consoleout, eventually, one can write a miniport driver that controls nv2a, so that WinSrv can output graphics (does the Xbox platform have Vbe/Vesa or even simple Vga?).

Now I'm also working on something called HalXbox, it's essentially a Windows Server 2003 SP1 HAL that emulates ACPI v2.0, and masks pci:0:0:0 - pci:1:31:0 by stopping all writes there.

And nothing can call interrupts in NT except int2Eh, if you do that, you get a nice Kernel Trap bugcheck, NTOS just works that way.

And if anyone has any questions about NT internals, please do ask me.

[torne]

How are you going to bring the kernel up in the first place? The biggest barrier is NTLDR, not the kernel/HAL. NTLDR assumes all kinds of crazy PC stuff exists.

[WindowsOCManage]

How are you going to bring the kernel up in the first place? The biggest barrier is NTLDR, not the kernel/HAL. NTLDR assumes all kinds of crazy PC stuff exists.

ReactOS Freeloader with some modifications.

ROS works on XBOX.

[torne]

Sounds good. Let us know how it goes.