Pal/ntsc Issues That Are Confusing Me.., please verify my assumptions... Options

[AlCapone]

Please evaluate my assumptions below, and correct/explain if you find something wrong...

-When playing a NTSC game in PAL mode, audio/video might lose synchronization.-right?

-The above is only a problem with some NTSC games, not all. - right?

-If a NTSC game is running in PAL mode, is there any chance the gameplay is running slower/faster than it would in NTSC mode ?

-Does playing NTSC games using PAL cause the same issues that playing PAL on NTSC ?

-I've <videomode autoregion="1"/> ,does it mean launching NTSC games will swith the video output to NTSC mode ? - (I did not see it happen yet.) - or is that some internal timing change that leave the video DAC in PAL mode anyway ?


Thank you all

This post has been edited by AlCapone: Sep 7 2003, 09:28 AM

[grug]

I fail to see the point of switching PAL Xboxes to NTSC mode. As long as you have PAL60 enabled in the MS Dash, when you load an NTSC game, it'll switch to PAL60. The resolution is the same as the NTSC (480/525 lines instead of 576/625 lines), the framerate is the same as the NTSC (hence the 60). The colour signal it gives the TV is different. Thats it. No speed difference. No sync problems.

(Also, its not for compatiblity purposes. Any PAL TV that can do NTSC can do PAL60.)

The only point of switching your PAL Xbox to NTSC is to watch DVDs. The Xbox attempts framerate conversion and the results aren't pretty. In summation, switching to NTSC is pointless in most cases.

This post has been edited by grug: Sep 7 2003, 09:19 AM

[AlCapone]

thnx.
so: <videomode autoregion="1"/> is really switching to PAL60 if it finds a NTSC game ? - or ?

regarding "pointless" -> I agree, except for one game that i've seen with severly skeved audio/video during intro rendering, I don't thin I've ever seen any NTSC related problems.

I also observed that game backups on the net are often marked "NTSC" or "PAL" , yet I never understood why people mark them differently - as I've never seen any difference.

[grug]

No, <videomode autoregion="1"> is unnecessarily switching to NTSC (and changing the EEPROM, which is just asking for trouble) when it should be doing nothing at all. When you load an NTSC Xbox game on a PAL Xbox, the Xbox automatically switches to PAL60, unless you have it disabled in which case it uses standard PAL and thats when all the problems occur (due to it being 17% slower.)

Try it. Set autoregion to "1" and play the game in NTSC. Now set it to "0" and play it in PAL60 and notice its exactly the same. (Colours might be a little more accurate, depending on your TV. NTSC is an inferior colour system. Hence the need for the "tint" function on NTSC.)

Now go into MS Dash and turn PAL60 off, and play your game again. Notice how jerky the movies are and how much slower it is, even in the menu.

The majority of people who complain about NTSC games running terribly on their PAL machine haven't bothered to turn PAL60 on.

[the joker]

pointless ? much likely.

A good reason to have the function ? "Because we can"


*edit*
Actually some NTSC games require NTSC mode.

This post has been edited by the joker: Sep 7 2003, 11:08 AM

[AlCapone]

you are right, I see "problem games" run fine on PAL60.
thnx.

[grug]

QUOTE (the joker @ Sep 7 2003, 01:08 PM)

Actually some NTSC games require NTSC mode.

Name one.

Please, I'm curious. What happens, does it refuse to run? Colours are wrong? Doesn't switch to PAL60? What about if you're using an RGB SCART cable, in which case NTSC/PAL are irrelevant and you're getting the pure RGB colour values and the Xbox merely outputs a 640x480 60hz signal?

And while changing the EEPROM every now and then might not be such a bad idea, i don't think its a good idea to be constantly changing it multiple times a day. Especially with bugs such as this.

This post has been edited by grug: Sep 7 2003, 11:47 AM

[the joker]

name one ?

you name one, we just offer the possibillity - and I know for a fact that it was a major problem on a game released earlier

Still - it's far less destructive than bios-flashing (even in the worst case scenario), and I haven't heard anyone complain about that feature in many other programs.



as a bottom line I am the confused one here... you really want us to take away an optional feature - that works ?


-tj

[bernienoel]

- one NTSC game that freeze on boot on a PAL eeprom : Tony Hawk 4
- one PAL game that only shows a black screen on a NTSC eeprom : TimeSpliters2

[the joker]

thx, something to test on.

-tj

[[BiA]FRAGMAN]

I can confirm that many NTSC-games doesn't utilize PAL60, and that the games need to be specifically written to use it.

Some other games that doesn't work properly in PAL (60):

Silent Hill 2 (NTSC): Voices and animation goes out of sync.
Blinx The Timesweeper (NTSC): Intro sound doesn't fit movie.

EDIT: I need this feature deperately, and I couldn't care less if the EEPROM has to be modified a million times a day. Think about what a harddrive is being put through

This post has been edited by [BiA]FRAGMAN: Sep 7 2003, 07:54 PM

[calle81]

Metal Gear Solid behave weird when in pal60.
Lord of the rings TTT hang in pal60
James bond Nightfire hangs in pal60

[AlCapone]

I've strated this thread:
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?act...ST&f=7&t=100207

where I hope people will continue to add information for public use.

[grug]

Thanks for the list of games. I'll try a few.

[CraiZEAH]

well there surely is use for the regions, PAL60 doesn't replace NTSC if the NTSC version does not support it. And some NTSC games just don't support it like , Kakuto Chojin, Soul Calibur 2 (jap) and
some emulators do have issues too.

What are those issues? well there's a quick answer for that, it will run slower, instead of 60FPS it
slows down to 50, leaving the game in a constant slow-motion compared to the original state.
You loose 1/6th of the speed, some Games do even enforce that it has to run in 60FPS (LOTR-TT)
which makes it seem to load awfully slow on a PAL machine, yet it is only the video region. Sure
Pal60 is really nice, constant colors, nice resolutions, but some games do require NTSC, so if your
TV does support NTSC, i would most likely make it switch to NTSC due to the bad result that could
happen, and of course that i was meant to be played like that. (colors might actually look pretty
"washed out" in some games)

Now there is an other benefit in this, what if you left your xbox there, and one of your buddies or kids tried the videomode switch, and he sets it to PAL, that wouldn't be a problem, if you were in europe
but if you are in america, it can end up quite bad with a distorted display that you couldn't even read
anymore what you run. Now this could hotfix it simply for you, by pressing the button combination.
The same is for pal Systems being set to NTSC and the TV not supporting it, which will only result in
black & white, which is still recoverable.

The usability of this feature is indeed necessary for people playing NTSC and PAL games, wheter you are in Europe/PAL and don't want the slowdowns cause no PAL60 is supported, or in USA if you want
to either fix your xbox or if your TV supports it to play it in the 50Hz Mode it should have decreasing speed of the game, yet increasing quality. I hope this clears up that wheter or not you use this feature is still your own choice, you can disable it and it all works like before.