Pgr3 Only 2x Aa In 720p!, So much for the 10mb eDRAM LOL! Options

[KAGE360]

I understand what you're saying but it's quite a change of tune isn't it? A few months ago we were all bragging about FREE 4X MSAA in ALL GAMES.

Now we're happy to get 2X MSAA and 30 fps.

I understand about tradeoffs and all of that. I mean if they asked me what I would prefer, 4X MSAA and 30 fps or 2X MSAA and 60 fps, I would easily go with the latter.

But you mean to tell me that they can't do 4X MSAA which was FREE a few months ago AND the game will only run at 30 fps?

And now you want me to shut up about it and take my medicine like a good little boy?

Please, give me a break.

Back in march if someone would've said that the X360 wouldn't be able to do 4X MSAA with PGR3 and on top of that would only do 30 fps, everyone would've jumped on him with flaming swords in hands.

But because we're all Xbox fanboys we have to just sit tight and take our medice and not only that but we have to like it too.

Why doesn't someone just say we were fed bullshit at E3 and MS is full of shit. And while they're at it, why don't they say that the core system is a fucking joke that you have to trick someone to buy(or ignorance) and the only thing it is good for is making MS money and our games worst because the developers can't rely on it. Shit, Japan has the HD standard and for $50 bucks cheaper but I better shut up. Like a good little fanboy I should do like the rest and take my medicine and shut up. Oh yea, and like it too.

*waits for thread about how awesome it is that the core system doesn't have a hard drive and that all X360's in Japan have a hard drive for $50 cheaper*

your an idiot.

the final dev kits have just been released weeks ago and you expect developers to learn how to harness the 10mb of eDRAM just like that??

like deftech said especially with launch games there is always a trade off. given 4 more months they could have 60fps and your complaining about something that has more to do with time restraints then the hardware.

its a damn launch title dont expect it to even begin to push the system. a process of tile rendering must be done to utiilize the 10mb of eDRAM and get your estimated free 4x FSAA. im sure that is a technique that will take time to learn on new hardware like the 360.

your just looking for reasons now to doubt the 360, if thats the case then dont get one!! developers are only STARTING to grasp the power of the 360 and they are raving about it, so what the hell are you doing wasting your time and ours finding reasons to downplay something that CliffyB says will do "MUCH GREATNESS"?

why are people like you even here if you have so many doubts of the system and its abilities?? go into another forum so you and yourself can discuss the non-existent future of the neo geo 2.

This post has been edited by KAGE360: Sep 16 2005, 06:43 AM

[mikeandbandit]

all this means is that the FRAME BUFFER is not being utilized whihc has nothing to do with the GAME ENGINE. 4x MSAA and 60Fps are free on the fram buffer and will not detrack from system ram, but if the game engine isnt running that fast to begin with then there is no way the fram buffer could change that. Anyway I cantinue to tell you guys the first wave games barely use 30% of the processing power available because of the time constaints.

[Deftech]

all this means is that the FRAME BUFFER is not being utilized whihc has nothing to do with the GAME ENGINE. 4x MSAA and 60Fps are free on the fram buffer and will not detrack from system ram, but if the game engine isnt running that fast to begin with then there is no way the fram buffer could change that. Anyway I cantinue to tell you guys the first wave games barely use 30% of the processing power available because of the time constaints.

Most of us know this my friend, while theres a small percentage that either have never dealt with a system launch b4, or are too stubborn to realize that fact you mentioned, or both.

It doesnt matter how long theyve been in development, because as the new kits got handed out, it either helped them or hurt them. it either got them over hurdles or tossed hurdles into their paths. If they had FInal hardware from the beginning, things would be different. That has never happened and will never happen. I cant believe Im even bothering with this, it feels like Im directing my comments towards 8 year olds who never knew such things, and unfortunately, some here are just as clueless.

All systems and their launch games stumble due to time restraints, period. The framerates arent tweaked, discs get pressed only to be buggy when people get them home, I could go on and on, people act like this is new and its only going to happen to the 360..hahahaha

[incognegro]

Time constraints is holding them back, not hardware constraints. With only 10 mb edram, its quite obvious that it wasnt going to be totally FREE. Some guy from From software did say that with 720p and msaa on the 360 is 10 times more powerful than the xbox while without them on its 20 times more powerful.

Anyways, it still a huge advantage since the other system would have to take a way bigger performance hit to achieve what is possible on the 360.

m_chael said it best......

[Wedding-shirt]

Ya, what the hell's up with that; MS kisses the asses of those who spit in their face.  While i understand their reason/strategy, it's still a slap in the face to those who supported and support them the most.  I'm afraid that MS couldn't even give away enough x360's to create a viable user-base in the land of the rising sun.  But at least MS is optimistic, i'll give them that.  .

MS should have just gone with only the $350 premium x360 world wide.

I agree 100%, GREAT POST!

[incognegro]

Ya, what the hell's up with that; MS kisses the asses of those who spit in their face.  While i understand their reason/strategy, it's still a slap in the face to those who supported and support them the most

MS should have just gone with only the $350 premium x360 world wide

ive been saying this shit since they anounced the price......

[Wedding-shirt]

all this means is that the FRAME BUFFER is not being utilized whihc has nothing to do with the GAME ENGINE. 4x MSAA and 60Fps are free on the fram buffer and will not detrack from system ram, but if the game engine isnt running that fast to begin with then there is no way the fram buffer could change that. Anyway I cantinue to tell you guys the first wave games barely use 30% of the processing power available because of the time constaints.

I respectfully disagree. I remember back during E3 how shitty most of the games looked and people offered excuses saying they were running on Alpha kits.

They said when they have the final kits or even the beta kits the games would look so much better. So far that hasn't been the case.

The games look the same now as they did back then. In other words, mostly they look like shit for something that should be next gen.

Now we're hearing that even with the almighty final dev kits, they can't even implement the FREE 4X MSAA that they promised and not only that, even with only 2X MSAA this particular game only runs at 30 fps. And everyone's fine with that. WTF?

Meanwhile the PS3 games which are running on ALPHA kits look FUCKING AWESOME!!!

Check out these MGS4 screens.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/meta...creenindex.html

That looks better than ANYTHING that has been shown on the X360 INCLUDING the great GOW.

And it's only running on the Alpha kits. But you know what, I don't think it's going to improve when they get their beta kits or even final kits. I think it will stay the same. Fortunately for Sony, that equal AWESOMENESS!

The X360 gets a bunch of excuses and crappy looking games. And then we have this DUMB JOKE called the core system.

If MS gets slaughtered this gen then they deserve it. For insulting our intelligence with that pathetic junk called the core system and for being all about the money while ignorance performance with their system.

I hope i'm wrong but I think we have another DreamCast here. Only this time the death will be more public.

[Wedding-shirt]

Here's a quote from gamespot about MGS4.

"We don't need to tell you that Guns of the Patriots looks utterly incredible--the screenshots certainly speak for themselves--and unlike some other PS3 games shown back at E3, we can say with confidence that enough aliasing and pixellated textures were evident in this trailer to indicate that it was running smoothly in real-time. This is pretty much one of the best-looking games we've ever seen. Whether or not this footage warrants such a grandiose statement will soon be for you to decide--it's reported that Kojima Productions will post the trailer itself on the MGS4 site at the close of TGS' first day, just a few hours from now. We await further details on this game with baited breath, and will bring them to you as soon as we have them."

[VariableElite]

Wedding, seriously, chill the fuck out. You're getting pretty annoying.

I'm gonna say this for the last time: graphics aren't everything. Otherwise, we'd all just be watching Toy Story and Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within over and over again.

Plus, in your constant comparisons to the Dreamcast, you forget that there are so many differences between MS right now and Sega 5-10 years ago as to make your comparisons less than moot.

You're one of those "glass is half-empty" guys. Honestly, I wonder how you ever got past your first system, seeing as how there's no point in ever upgrading because something better will be along soon.

Also, you're bragging about MGS4. Sorry, but I don't feel the urge to play as a 60-year old man whose face disturbs me and can't seem to hold a rifle properly.

Finally, I flat-out refuse to buy a console from a company that thinks that I should have to get a second job to pay for it; from a company whose motto is now "style over substance"; from a company that takes every good thing it touches and turns it into crap; from a company that thinks I am an idiot for wanting to buy an Xbox 360.

Seriously, your non-stop diatribes are perhaps evidence that you should stop posting here, as you're only making people mad -- yourself included. Regardless, one game, of which there is no evidence (despite what GameSpot says) that what is shown is anything but badly-rendered CG, proves nothing about a console.

[KAGE360]

I respectfully disagree. I remember back during E3 how shitty most of the games looked and people offered excuses saying they were running on Alpha kits.

They said when they have the final kits or even the beta kits the games would look so much better. So far that hasn't been the case.

The games look the same now as they did back then. In other words, mostly they look like shit for something that should be next gen.

Now we're hearing that even with the almighty final dev kits, they can't even implement the FREE 4X MSAA that they promised and not only that, even with only 2X MSAA this particular game only runs at 30 fps. And everyone's fine with that. WTF?

Meanwhile the PS3 games which are running on ALPHA kits look FUCKING AWESOME!!!

Check out these MGS4 screens.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/meta...creenindex.html

That looks better than ANYTHING that has been shown on the X360 INCLUDING the great GOW.

And it's only running on the Alpha kits. But you know what, I don't think it's going to improve when they get their beta kits or even final kits. I think it will stay the same. Fortunately for Sony, that equal AWESOMENESS!

The X360 gets a bunch of excuses and crappy looking games. And then we have this DUMB JOKE called the core system.

If MS gets slaughtered this gen then they deserve it. For insulting our intelligence with that pathetic junk called the core system and for being all about the money while ignorance performance with their system.

I hope i'm wrong but I think we have another DreamCast here. Only this time the death will be more public.

how can you keep saying you hope your wrong when nothing but crap keeps coming out of your mouth?? if i wasnt at work i would pull up pics from E3 and compare them to now, even though all you would see are red x's.

how can you disagree about the frame buffer and not even include it in your argument? THE FINAL DEV KITS WERE RELEASED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, do you honestly expect developers learn and code their games to the new kits that quick?

also i havent read anywhere that sony is calling the dev kits the alpha kits. i know it has a cell CPU (2.7 GHz i believe) and a 7800 GPU in it and is the size of a printer. it has been reported that the kits represent 75%-80% of the systems power. so the difference between these kits and the final ones wont be drastic at all. what the vid shows is beautiful but its a scripted scene meaning no AI or physics was needed to divert power from the CPU and GPU. none of the "xbox fanboys" here are denying that the vid looks good, were not blind like some people and too ignorant to admit when a game on ANY system looks good. and save your comparisons until we see actual gameplay footage, or compare the cut-scene from GoW or RE5 to MGS4. there is nothing about that vid to have anyone believe the same thing cant be done on the 360, you are just so whored out to the almighty Cell chip that its sickening.

why bother bringing up the core system?? to most of us true gamers it doesnt even exist, its nothing more then an option to the mass market of people who no nothing better when it comes to games and because of that wouldnt care about whats in the system only the price, realize that. not one developer has made any comment of how they are rethinking their support for DL content and caching because of the core system. also even though you are the one bitching about the core system, you are also the same who will say nothing about paying much more for the ps3 with out ANY hard drive, but sony isnt holding back the perfomance of the ps3 because of no HD because they have the godly cell chip to save the day for all!

This post has been edited by KAGE360: Sep 16 2005, 04:35 PM

[Wedding-shirt]

Wedding, seriously, chill the fuck out. You're getting pretty annoying.

I'm gonna say this for the last time: graphics aren't everything. Otherwise, we'd all just be watching Toy Story and Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within over and over again.

Plus, in your constant comparisons to the Dreamcast, you forget that there are so many differences between MS right now and Sega 5-10 years ago as to make your comparisons less than moot.

You're one of those "glass is half-empty" guys. Honestly, I wonder how you ever got past your first system, seeing as how there's no point in ever upgrading because something better will be along soon.

Also, you're bragging about MGS4. Sorry, but I don't feel the urge to play as a 60-year old man whose face disturbs me and can't seem to hold a rifle properly.

Finally, I flat-out refuse to buy a console from a company that thinks that I should have to get a second job to pay for it; from a company whose motto is now "style over substance"; from a company that takes every good thing it touches and turns it into crap; from a company that thinks I am an idiot for wanting to buy an Xbox 360.

Seriously, your non-stop diatribes are perhaps evidence that you should stop posting here, as you're only making people mad -- yourself included. Regardless, one game, of which there is no evidence (despite what GameSpot says) that what is shown is anything but badly-rendered CG, proves nothing about a console.

The truth hurts.

[KAGE360]

The truth hurts.

its very surprising you can admit that about yourself, i think you deserve a cookie

[VariableElite]

The truth hurts.

I wouldn't know, I'm not the one that can't accept that what's shown on the 360 right now is not truly representative of what the console can handle.

[jaskerzada006]

I have to agree with Wedding.

I wouldn't know, I'm not the one that can't accept that what's shown on the 360 right now is not truly representative of what the console can handle.

Was DOA3 representative of what the xbox could "handle"????????

Look, we were promised so much, but when M$ says so, you bend over willingly, and you want other to get raped with a smile on thier face just as you. So, good luck with that.

[jaskerzada006]

I have to agree with Wedding.

I wouldn't know, I'm not the one that can't accept that what's shown on the 360 right now is not truly representative of what the console can handle.

Was DOA3 representative of what the xbox could "handle"????????

Look, we were promised so much, but when M$ says so, you bend over willingly, and you want other to get raped with a smile on thier face just as you. So, good luck with that.