3rlod Again After X-clamp Removal Options

[sugarshane]

Then it has nothing to do with the washers. Thermal paste will only help with overheating problem and or error code 0020, it may help but that alone will come no where close to solving 0102. Before I can even try to help You Sugarshane I need to know whose method you used for fixing your xbox from there I can try to diagnose what could be your possible problems.

First let me say that I appreciate your willingness to help.

I used Lawdogs tutorial.

I thought it may have been the washers because with the motherboard not seated down all the way (Due to the washers) it kind of bent a little when I screwed it down. Maybe that caused the solder points to be compromised much in the same way that the x clamps caused it to do.

[brywalker]

I did mine even before the tutorials existed. In fact, I was the one who posted the screw thread size.

My system has been working 110% since I did it. Actually, it runs cooler and quieter than before!

[sugarshane]

I did mine even before the tutorials existed. In fact, I was the one who posted the screw thread size.

My system has been working 110% since I did it. Actually, it runs cooler and quieter than before!

Wow! You are so amazing. You must be the smartest person ever. I hope someday I can be like you.


Is that what you were looking for when you posted that?

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

Ok now lets not get smart. Heres the deal Sugarshane, you can do two things. One go back in a re-tighten all the bolts into the heatsink, most likely the GPU side. That will work, but your xbox is prone to start freezing again. Second thing you can do is RBJTechs tutorial. It more secure it really bolts the heatsink to the chip really well so you do not receive freezing or loss of connections. Try both, I think you have more postivie results using RBJTechs tutorial I fixed 3 this way there all still working.

[brywalker]

Wow! You are so amazing. You must be the smartest person ever. I hope someday I can be like you.
Is that what you were looking for when you posted that?

Yeah, that was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Actually, I was trying to show how long ago I did the fix by stating that it predated the "official" tutorials. Should I have just gone back and found the exact date instead?

Dokworm did a bunch of these WELL before it was documented. I haven't heard of any of those failing at all.

Now, even though you were a complete douchebag to me, I am going to help you out anyway.

You need Arctic Silver. Period. I used Artic Silver 5.

I used nylon washers. I don't remember the sizes, but the top one was thicker than the bottom. The bottom one was almost translucent it was so thin...#10 maybe? Thickness has to be somewhere around .05 - .062. The thin one is somewhere around .025 (I don't have a micrometer here). Thin between head and board / thicker between board and sink. I used 1 washer between the board and the sink.

Under the GPU heatsink I got thermal pads for the RAM - I used 1.5mm and just torqued slowly so they spread - so you can transfer the heat from the RAM to the sink. I also put heatsinks on the RAM on the top. I have not found a good way to cool the bottom sinks so as of right now I am not. I don't like the thick thermal pads they put on stock now unless there is a way to fill the channel of the RF shield where the memory sits. Too much of an air gap in there to do any real good.

For the screws, I used M5 BUTTON-HEAD allens. #10. These will fit without altering the RF shield at all if you are going to not go through it. They will touch the RF shield, but it won't bow the board when it is installed. Fits perfectly.

Make sure you hand tighten them down evenly. Then go from each one and do a .25 turn on each one until they are tight. Don't Sven torque it, just get them so they are tight enough that they can't just spin out. You will know when they are good.

Good luck. This is the perfect fix. Don't do the heat gun/towel/rubber pads. They are all band-aids and won't actually fix the problem. They just stop the bleed for a little bit.

Oh, and I have NO IDEA where to get these screws. My friend works in a factory and was able to get a few from the bin there. The only ones I found in my local hardware store were the PAN-HEAD and they are too big.

This post has been edited by brywalker: May 4 2007, 12:00 AM

[SnufftheCrimeDog]

Hmm, well thats cool Brywalker that your is still kicking, good to hear too. I used Lawdawgs method on one xbox and it crapped out after a month redid it with RBJTechs and viola its back and running. So, I've come to alot of conclusions(mind you I may be way off) as I've been able to observe 3 xboxes, and 2 of them have been two different fixes. With Lawdawgs tutorial simple,efficient, effective, but dodgy in some aspects. Dodgy because you are simply screwing an m5 screw into the existing threads. Well if A.) Not tightened enough, B.) Bad threads(more possible then you would think) lead to loosening and an uneven connection with the die, IE freezing, or C.) The system vibration loosen the screw or jerk it enough that it has again an uneven connection. Dont get me wrong it'll work but depending on your xbox and how often you play it. Not with RBJTechs, his is secure and precise, but at the same time is more difficult then Lawdawgs. His you go through the metal case through the heatsink and clamp down with a lock nut at the top of each bolt. This is sturdy, very sturdy if done right, and can prolong play time. So what method you use is up to you, it all depends on your confidence. If one doesnt work try the other one.

This post has been edited by SnufftheCrimeDog: May 4 2007, 12:17 AM

[The Prankster]

You need Arctic Silver. Period. I used Artic Silver 5.

Arctic silver 5 isn't MIRACLE PASTE sir. We can all live happy lives without getting this stuff, any ol' stuff will do, just make sure you cover the surface well. I don't believe that grain of rice amount stuff, if it was that little you would have minimal contact to disperse heat away from the cpu into the heatsink. Also I myself would never order a tube of paste for 12$ online and 5$ or more for shipping most likely. Though I live like a mile from a radioshack so it's more convenient for me to go there. I think people get it more for the aftermath of saying 'I used arctic silver 5' because of the somewhat cool sounding name. Has anyone actually tested the differences between radioshack/arctic silver/other brands of heatsink paste? Yes maybe it's better, but once again... A heat transfer paste can only be SOOOOO goood.

This post has been edited by The Prankster: May 4 2007, 03:21 AM

[sugarshane]

Dude I meant nothing by that. I just forget sometimes that friendly sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet. And thanks for the insight.

Yeah, that was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Actually, I was trying to show how long ago I did the fix by stating that it predated the "official" tutorials. Should I have just gone back and found the exact date instead?

Dokworm did a bunch of these WELL before it was documented. I haven't heard of any of those failing at all.

Now, even though you were a complete douchebag to me, I am going to help you out anyway.

You need Arctic Silver. Period. I used Artic Silver 5.

I used nylon washers. I don't remember the sizes, but the top one was thicker than the bottom. The bottom one was almost translucent it was so thin...#10 maybe? Thickness has to be somewhere around .05 - .062. The thin one is somewhere around .025 (I don't have a micrometer here). Thin between head and board / thicker between board and sink. I used 1 washer between the board and the sink.

Under the GPU heatsink I got thermal pads for the RAM - I used 1.5mm and just torqued slowly so they spread - so you can transfer the heat from the RAM to the sink. I also put heatsinks on the RAM on the top. I have not found a good way to cool the bottom sinks so as of right now I am not. I don't like the thick thermal pads they put on stock now unless there is a way to fill the channel of the RF shield where the memory sits. Too much of an air gap in there to do any real good.

For the screws, I used M5 BUTTON-HEAD allens. #10. These will fit without altering the RF shield at all if you are going to not go through it. They will touch the RF shield, but it won't bow the board when it is installed. Fits perfectly.

Make sure you hand tighten them down evenly. Then go from each one and do a .25 turn on each one until they are tight. Don't Sven torque it, just get them so they are tight enough that they can't just spin out. You will know when they are good.

Good luck. This is the perfect fix. Don't do the heat gun/towel/rubber pads. They are all band-aids and won't actually fix the problem. They just stop the bleed for a little bit.

Oh, and I have NO IDEA where to get these screws. My friend works in a factory and was able to get a few from the bin there. The only ones I found in my local hardware store were the PAN-HEAD and they are too big.

[brywalker]

Arctic silver 5 isn't MIRACLE PASTE sir. We can all live happy lives without getting this stuff, any ol' stuff will do, just make sure you cover the surface well. I don't believe that grain of rice amount stuff, if it was that little you would have minimal contact to disperse heat away from the cpu into the heatsink. Also I myself would never order a tube of paste for 12$ online and 5$ or more for shipping most likely. Though I live like a mile from a radioshack so it's more convenient for me to go there. I think people get it more for the aftermath of saying 'I used arctic silver 5' because of the somewhat cool sounding name. Has anyone actually tested the differences between radioshack/arctic silver/other brands of heatsink paste? Yes maybe it's better, but once again... A heat transfer paste can only be SOOOOO goood.

I think you need to do a little research. You can easily shave 5c off of the temps by using a metallic based thermal compound over the Radio Shack silicone based stuff. It doesn't HAVE to be Arctic Silver 5. You can use Arctic Silver 3, Cooler Master kind, etc. When dealing with items that run VERY close to the safe tolerances heat-wise, you want to do everything you can to keep it down.

I have been working on computers for a VERY long time. I refuse to use anything other than AS as a compound. It has been a night and day difference for the performance systems I have built when getting every last bit of power with maximum heat removal.

[lawdawg0931]

Actually, I was trying to show how long ago I did the fix by stating that it predated the "official" tutorials. Should I have just gone back and found the exact date instead?

Dokworm did a bunch of these WELL before it was documented.

I have mentioned the fact (in my tutorial) that most of the info in my tutorial came from Dokworms trial & errors. I'm getting alot of credit for putting this tutorial together, but I must "Pay it Forward" so to say. The technical side was well on its way, before I put this tutorial together. I too had removed my X clamps long before my tutorial was in written form. Glad WE can help all who benefit from this info.

@SnufftheCrimeDog
I agree with you about RBJTech's mod being much more secure, I have used it myself. I found a bolt that is just smaller than the threads of the heatsink, so it passes through (barely). Because of this, it is still reversible, but takes advantage of bolting the board to the case - without drilling out the heatsinks.

[booker]

I have mentioned the fact (in my tutorial) that most of the info in my tutorial came from Dokworms trial & errors. I'm getting alot of credit for putting this tutorial together, but I must "Pay it Forward" so to say. The technical side was well on its way, before I put this tutorial together. I too had removed my X clamps long before my tutorial was in written form. Glad WE can help all who benefit from this info.

@SnufftheCrimeDog
I agree with you about RBJTech's mod being much more secure, I have used it myself. I found a bolt that is just smaller than the threads of the heatsink, so it passes through (barely). Because of this, it is still reversible, but takes advantage of bolting the board to the case - without drilling out the heatsinks.

You just answered one of my questions.
I´ll try the RBJ method because with yours i´m getting freezing after 1week of use more or less. I have to tight the screews every week.
I don´t want to drill the HS, because i want to have this option available.. so i´ll use a smaller screws so i can pass through witout drilling.

Thanks

[SlickWilly440]

I have been working on computers for a VERY long time. I refuse to use anything other than AS as a compound. It has been a night and day difference for the performance systems I have built when getting every last bit of power with maximum heat removal.

So how much AS5 do I need to cover the CPU/GPU? Is the 3.5g one enough or do I need more? Thanks.

[brywalker]

So how much AS5 do I need to cover the CPU/GPU? Is the 3.5g one enough or do I need more? Thanks.

You could probably do about 50 applications with the 3.5g tube. You want to put a dot about the size of an uncooked grain of rice on it then use a plastic baggie on your finger and spread a nice thin even layer about the die. Then, use a razor or credit card (something with a nice flat edge) and slide it across the die lightly so it spreads evenly. You only need a thin layer (as long as your heatsink is flat) because it is just filling the very very tiny pits and valleys in the heatsink and die so they will mate as flat as possible.

On chips with an exposed die (like these) this is the correct installation. On chips with a heat spreader (P4, A64, C2D, etc) place the same amount in the center of the spreader and let the pressure from the sink spread it.

[brywalker]

I have mentioned the fact (in my tutorial) that most of the info in my tutorial came from Dokworms trial & errors. I'm getting alot of credit for putting this tutorial together, but I must "Pay it Forward" so to say. The technical side was well on its way, before I put this tutorial together. I too had removed my X clamps long before my tutorial was in written form. Glad WE can help all who benefit from this info.

Exactly. This fix has been in the works for a bit, it's just that no one got around to throwing instructions together for it. Thank you for that. This community rocks for this reason alone.

@SnufftheCrimeDog
I agree with you about RBJTech's mod being much more secure, I have used it myself. I found a bolt that is just smaller than the threads of the heatsink, so it passes through (barely). Because of this, it is still reversible, but takes advantage of bolting the board to the case - without drilling out the heatsinks.

Ultimately, I think the best fix would be a hybrid. The difficulty is getting a washer system that keeps it the same exact height between the RF shield and the board. If we use a 1" M5 bolt with the RF shield holes slightly drilled out with a couple of washers in between the shield and the board, but the same setup on top screwing into the sinks that would be best. that way there is less movement. OTOH, the RF shield flexes easier than the board does so I don't know how much it will help in that area. I guess it comes down to the idea that as long as everything gets tightened down correctly, there should be little to no problems with either fix.

You just answered one of my questions.
I´ll try the RBJ method because with yours i´m getting freezing after 1week of use more or less. I have to tight the screews every week.
I don´t want to drill the HS, because i want to have this option available.. so i´ll use a smaller screws so i can pass through witout drilling.

Thanks

Hey booker, you either have to tighten down the screws a bit more or try using some high temp (just not the forever kind) lok-tite on those threads. I undid my fix after 3 weeks (to change to a smaller head screw) and my screws were as tight as the day I put them on. Even with a lot of use, they should not back out. Oh! Unless you have the wrong thread screws! Make sure they are M5. Get them hand tight, then tighten them a quarter turn each until they are all tight. Then give them one last little turn. Don't put the board in a vice and go to town, but get them tight enough so you couldn't turn then any more unless you did that.

[booker]

Hey booker, you either have to tighten down the screws a bit more or try using some high temp (just not the forever kind) lok-tite on those threads. I undid my fix after 3 weeks (to change to a smaller head screw) and my screws were as tight as the day I put them on. Even with a lot of use, they should not back out. Oh! Unless you have the wrong thread screws! Make sure they are M5. Get them hand tight, then tighten them a quarter turn each until they are all tight. Then give them one last little turn. Don't put the board in a vice and go to town, but get them tight enough so you couldn't turn then any more unless you did that.

I though they were very tight, but again i may be wrong. I didn´t notice the screws were "loose" but since the only thing i did was to re tight the screws and replace the AS5(it had only 1 week old), the system have been running for 4 days now.

I asume and some people in the forum asume the screws got loose and that made the system freeze.
I´ll wait unitl the system freeze again, when this happen i´ll try the RB method. If that don´t work, or work wrost, i´ll go back to Matt´s method.