Patched Xdvdfs_maker With Cross-linking Options

[pelago]

Does anyone know what the situation is with Xbox360 disc images and layouts? Are the images that people have already dumped in the same order as the original discs, or are they alphabetical?

It would be nice if the Xbox 360 scene could start from the beginning correctly, with properly layoutted (is that a word?) ISOs.

[VooD]

Does anyone know what the situation is with Xbox360 disc images and layouts? Are the images that people have already dumped in the same order as the original discs, or are they alphabetical?

It would be nice if the Xbox 360 scene could start from the beginning correctly, with properly layoutted (is that a word?) ISOs.

I believe X360 isos are sector dumped, so they´re already optimezed

[VooD]

neat! i got "published" in the main page! (of the Layouts site) What can i say? I hope people finds this version useful and not too buggy! anyway the real hard work was already done but hey! it's nice to get some credit!
I'll try to do DL next, right now I can't figure out how to put the layer break in the ISO file (google has been unfriendly this time) maybe do a big 8.5gb file padded with zeroes

Mmmm...Mexico..

Pues en cuanto a dvd-dl, es algo más complicado creo. Lo primero es determinar el sector exacto donde se hace el cambio de capa, y tener en cuenta que ningun fichero quede entre ambas capas.

Pero lo que realmente CloneXB y yo pretendíamos en un principio era replicar las optimizaciones de cambio de capa, de forma que se minimizase el tiempo de acceso en el caso de que el disco original tuviese algún tipo de optimización a este respecto. Para ello pretendíamos simular el espacio gastado por los security placeholders de forma que los ficheros quedaran en su posición original relativa, y de paso aprovechar el padding para moverlo todo hacia los extremos.

Por cierto también has salido en las noticias de xbox-scene.

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About dvd-dl, I think is a bit more complicated. First of all is to check in which exact sector is the layer change done and also keeping in mind no file should remain between both layers.

But what CloneXB and I really pretended was cloning the layer switch optimizations so the access time was decreased just in case the original disc had any kind of layer switch optimization. To achieve that we wanted to simulate the wasted space which the security placeholders use so the files were kept in their original relative position, and btw using padding in order to move everything to the outer part of the disc.

[mwg40]

Mmmm...Mexico..

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About dvd-dl, I think is a bit more complicated. First of all is to check in which exact sector is the layer change done and also keeping in mind no file should remain between both layers.

But what CloneXB and I really pretended was cloning the layer switch optimizations so the access time was decreased just in case the original disc had any kind of layer switch optimization. To achieve that we wanted to simulate the wasted space which the security placeholders use so the files were kept in their original relative position, and btw using padding in order to move everything to the outer part of the disc.

mmmm... España!... creo que este idioma lo domino mejor que el ingles pero por ahora continuare haciendo como si en verdad dominara el ingles
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About the layer break the problem is I can't put this info (LB sector) in the ISO file, I need to either write a header file with a standard format (.MDS, maybe .CUE?) containing this info, or inform the user of this number so it's manually fed to dvddecrypter/imgburn/(other?). I think header files are propietary, so they don't have a public definition, for now I'll just output this number.

DL originals tend to have their files around the layer break (I.E. not starting at the first data sector), but since they are recorded (pressed) the other way around (outside to center) would it be right to assume the layer break is near the center and the content is "padded" towards the center?
I'll put things relative to the LB, this will create a sector layout similar to the original, in theory this will recreate any layer switch optimization, but on regular DVDR media the content will be inverse to the original because files will be padded towards the LB which is near the outer edge.
(I'm not good at explaining things I know)
This will be the first version, in the next one i guess i'll have to do something like -opt1, which will move files from layer 0 to 1 and vice-versa, and the files will be padded away from the LB and towards the start of L0 and end of L1.... this is because a DVDR L1 goes from the outer edge to the center, like a XDVD L0 does, so our DVDR L1 will become a "virtual" XDVD L0, and padding away from the LB would cause files to physically be in a position similar to the original, even if it's really on the "wrong" layer, and simulating the original LB near the center. This will produce a sector layout not similar to the original, however if I'm right it should be physically similar and keep any layer switch optimization (only when padded right).
(Once again, sorry... Not good at all at explaining myself)
But first things first, are my assumptions correct? does layer 0 of XDVDs really start at the outer edge? etc.
And... first things first, lemme get back to work on this without the -opt1 stuff

[VooD]

DL originals tend to have their files around the layer break (I.E. not starting at the first data sector), but since they are recorded (pressed) the other way around (outside to center) would it be right to assume the layer break is near the center and the content is "padded" towards the center?

DL originals, are just are single layer disc, layer 0 starts in the inner part of the disc, and it´s read toward the outer part. And then, layer 1 begins in the outer part and it´s read toward the inner part. The files are not around the layer change, and the correct way to pad would be this one.

I'll put things relative to the LB, this will create a sector layout similar to the original, in theory this will recreate any layer switch optimization, but on regular DVDR media the content will be inverse to the original because files will be padded towards the LB which is near the outer edge.
(I'm not good at explaining things I know)

Keep in mind the file order would be exactly the same if we use the data included on dl layout files. In fact for any dvd reader double layer disc are seen as standart discs, except for the layer switch point which is completly transparent to the system, so that´s how the file would be spread:



(this image doesn´t show the non usable outer part of the disc, nor security placeholders).

As is shown in the first picture, you NEED to know where security placeholders are and their size in order to make a exact double layer backup from an original disc. At the moment, xobx layout dumper is no t able to detect that...and sice is kinda abandoned probably will never, unless someone else makes a new dumper supporting that.

This will be the first version, in the next one i guess i'll have to do something like -opt1, which will move files from layer 0 to 1 and vice-versa, and the files will be padded away from the LB and towards the start of L0 and end of L1.... this is because a DVDR L1 goes from the outer edge to the center, like a XDVD L0 does, so our DVDR L1 will become a "virtual" XDVD L0, and padding away from the LB would cause files to physically be in a position similar to the original, even if it's really on the "wrong" layer, and simulating the original LB near the center. This will produce a sector layout not similar to the original, however if I'm right it should be physically similar and keep any layer switch optimization (only when padded right).

Mmmm....nope, just forget any file order inversing and all that in DL disc, is not needed at all. Remember:

L0: from inner part to the outer part
L1: from outer part to the inner part.

There´s good documentation about all this in the XDK, and also on the original topic in which we discussed the layout file´s theory. Also MooGUI´s included documentation has nice info about Xbox´s disc structure.

Opps, I forgot you probably wont need where security placeholders are, as we have the sector numbers and file sizes of every file, and so, it´s just a matter of keeping the same relation, just as in the first picture.

[mwg40]

DL originals, are just are single layer disc, layer 0 starts in the inner part of the disc, and it´s read toward the outer part. And then, layer 1 begins in the outer part and it´s read toward the inner part. The files are not around the layer change, and the correct way to pad would be this one.

Hiya. I'm glad I was wrong on this, I've just proved my newbieness by just believing (and mis-understanding) what was said about xbox DVDs being pressed from the edge to the center, and not reading anything else about it. Now I've read the entire original thread, very interesting to see how this project started to grow, and nice work defending your idea!
Thank you for clarifying things

Security placeholders is something i wasn't considering (i thought they were only added to the padding area) but I'll get this info from the sector numbers on the layout just like you said.

Now my dilemma is how to specify where to start the layer break, i dont want to force it to look for a file in sector 1715632 (to allow custom, non-original DL layouts) but rather specify in the layout which file will start layer 1, the best place would be in the layout header i think, maybe as a comment so it still works with actual & older layout-based programs, however it would need manual editing until tools are updated.... my suggested syntax is something like this:

#@LayerBreakFile: /dir/file.ext

The "#@" would mean special data (metadata?) follows, since it starts with # it's ignored in actual programs, it could have other uses like specifying if the iso will be padded or not, and how much to -OEIBuf pad... but that's gonna be in some future release if it's accepted, other syntax could be:

H,LayerBreakFile,/dir/file.ext

The H is for "Header", next is what header info we're talking about, then the actual value

.... Or it doesn't matter as long as it gets the DL stuff done? (opinions, please!)

[IG_Chris]

Wow. I'm glad to see that this project is still going. I thought it had died with the release of 2.2l. I think you guys have done really great jobs with this (I even created a Xbox-Scene account to tell you how great these programs are). I would really like to see this project continue to grow to the point where I no longer need 2 xbox programs installed on my PC anymore (as well as DL support for mooGUI, so I don't have to use command line any more ). I would be willing to help out in any way I can. I am fairly good with C++, so if I could help in programming or debugging, that would be cool. I've always wanted to do some xbox related programming before, I've just never had a good reason before. Just e-mail me (chris.usher@gmail.com) if you'd like any help (especially cause I got spring break to waste for a week now ). I would also like to know what I need to build the source from the layout site (just a compiler, or XDK, or something else?). Thanks, and please let me know if I can help in anyway.

Edit: Oh yeah I got msn messenger & google talk too, I use the same e-mail for both of those too. Whenever I'm online, I'll be findable there.

This post has been edited by IG_Chris: Mar 26 2006, 10:20 AM

[VooD]

I think there´s no way to specify where the DL break is set on a standart iso file, that´s probably the reason because of DVDDecrypter let you to specify an exact sector for layer break
So the way to make this would be just generate the DL iso using relative positions to the original disc, and then (or after padding if it is used) check which sector is the last one in the files included on layer0.
Then you could just simply add the value to the iso name, and prompt for the user to type this number at dvddecrypter layer break sector option.

(btw, I hope you didn´t changed anything problematic on the standart single layer code on xbdvdfs_maker, I mean, if you thought the disc was read backwards, and you modified something according to that, you could have broken something)

Wow. I'm glad to see that this project is still going. I thought it had died with the release of 2.2l. I think you guys have done really great jobs with this (I even created a Xbox-Scene account to tell you how great these programs are). I would really like to see this project continue to grow to the point where I no longer need 2 xbox programs installed on my PC anymore (as well as DL support for mooGUI, so I don't have to use command line any more ). I would be willing to help out in any way I can. I am fairly good with C++, so if I could help in programming or debugging, that would be cool. I've always wanted to do some xbox related programming before, I've just never had a good reason before. Just e-mail me (chris.usher@gmail.com) if you'd like any help (especially cause I got spring break to waste for a week now ). I would also like to know what I need to build the source from the layout site (just a compiler, or XDK, or something else?). Thanks, and please let me know if I can help in anyway.

Edit: Oh yeah I got msn messenger & google talk too, I use the same e-mail for both of those too. Whenever I'm online, I'll be findable there.

XBDVDFS_maker is very easy to compile. In fact it compiles in almost everything, it doesn´t use anything strange. In windows clonexb used visual studio, but, I think it also compiles with gcc, even on linux. As for Mwg, I suggest you to read the included documentation on the xdk, and the original topic to get a nice idea about how really all this works.Then maybe you should contact him to cooperate.

[mwg40]

(btw, I hope you didn´t changed anything problematic on the standart single layer code on xbdvdfs_maker, I mean, if you thought the disc was read backwards, and you modified something according to that, you could have broken something)

Don't worry, I wasn't sure if i should do it that way, that's why i posted that comment before doing anything.... like i said before, I'm glad i was wrong! my "theory" wouldn't be easy to program i think

However I'm changing some parts of the code so it works wiith DL and pads the areas where security placeholders were so i ask of you to please beta-test it (or alpha-test) because im changing working, tested code with some new untested code

This post has been edited by mwg40: Mar 26 2006, 07:06 PM

[VooD]

Don't worry, I wasn't sure if i should do it that way, that's why i posted that comment before doing anything.... like i said before, I'm glad i was wrong! my "theory" wouldn't be easy to program i think

However I'm changing some parts of the code so it works wiith DL and pads the areas where security placeholders were so i ask of you to please beta-test it (or alpha-test) because im changing working, tested code with some new untested code

You MUSN´T change the way padding and everything else works on single layer discs unless there are bugs. Emulating the security placeholders it only has sense on double layer discs (in addition to regular padding, as I explain in the picture I posted before). We don´t want to break something that already works fine.

About DL betatesting..., I have no DL burner, and even If I had one, I´m not sure about if I would be brave enough lol.

[IG_Chris]

Alright, so are all of the folders in the source archive one project? Or is each one supposed to be built sepratley (other than the inculde folder, of course). Or do some builds use multiple folders? Which files/directories go into building what programs?

[IG_Chris]

Alright, so are all of the folders in the source archive one project? Or is each one supposed to be built sepratley (other than the inculde folder, of course). Or do some builds use multiple folders? Which files/directories go into building what programs?

Nevermind, VooD nicely helped me understand how the source files were organized

[mwg40]

You MUSN´T change the way padding and everything else works on single layer discs unless there are bugs. Emulating the security placeholders it only has sense on double layer discs (in addition to regular padding, as I explain in the picture I posted before). We don´t want to break something that already works fine.

About DL betatesting..., I have no DL burner, and even If I had one, I´m not sure about if I would be brave enough lol.

I won't change the way things work, but since i'm adding new stuff i have to alter what's already there so i have the risk of breaking something, i mean for example i wont get more funny ideas about changing the padding or anything but i may have to change the code that does the padding so the new things work and it may or may not break... of course i do what i can so it doesn't break, but it can happen

I think i've completed a preliminar version, but im ashamed to admit i dont have access to DL media! (did this as a hobby) so I can't really test it, I did the usual test (NinjaGaidenBlack) and it calculated the layer break, calculated and padded the placeholders and made a correct, readable ISO. I will upload it later but it should be noted it's an untested version. Any tests would be good, even a couple of regular dvd5s just to check it still works

[IG_Chris]

I have a couple of blank DVD-R DLs, and a few DVD-RWs (single layer) so I could help test . Unfortunatley, I don't have any games over 4.5 gb to try burning... but I could try burning some single dvd5 images made with the new version on RW discs to make sure you didn't break anything (especially not the planet ). If I can help, just let me know.

[VooD]

I won't change the way things work, but since i'm adding new stuff i have to alter what's already there so i have the risk of breaking something, i mean for example i wont get more funny ideas about changing the padding or anything but i may have to change the code that does the padding so the new things work and it may or may not break... of course i do what i can so it doesn't break, but it can happen

I think i've completed a preliminar version, but im ashamed to admit i dont have access to DL media! (did this as a hobby) so I can't really test it, I did the usual test (NinjaGaidenBlack) and it calculated the layer break, calculated and padded the placeholders and made a correct, readable ISO. I will upload it later but it should be noted it's an untested version. Any tests would be good, even a couple of regular dvd5s just to check it still works

Something you can try meanwhile is testing if the files are in the expected sectors using xiso.