Xbox Team about Developing the Xbox360 HD-DVD Addon Options

[puppydg68]

AND FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY....

G. HDDVD IS WINNING... visually hddvd is whiping the floor with bluray movies, its been in all the reviews to date that hddvd has a crisper image with better special features and even their upscaling of dvd's has been superior... On top of that HDDVD media released and on the schedule for release is 3x as high as planned bluray releases, then theirs the important numbers... HDDVD movie sales in september (dont know the oct numbers) were up to 11 to 1 over bluray... up from augusts 8 to 1 sales rate of hddvd movies... not to mention hddvd is way ahead in hardware sales anyway... and that all was BEFORE the hddvd addon for the 360 started selling out everywhere... remember microsoft said 10M consoles by year end which by recent projections by the end of 06 they should be able to just break that 10M milestone... What does that mean????? That means 10 MILLION potential HDDVD users that can easily get a hddvd player for 200$ vs a ps3 for 600 (or bluray standalone for around 1000$) or even a hddvd standalone for 500-600$

I just wanted to comment on your math:

$200 (addon)+299 (core) = $500
same as a hddvd standard, or a ps3 core, but lacks HDMI DTS Audio and audio re-encodes.

10 million potential hd-dvd users, make sure you underline and bold potential.. because on the movie war. the 10 million ps3s that they will have in home next year will ALL be equiped with a hi-def audio player less cripped than the 360 one.

I can understand your destain for sony since you are obviously a fanboy, however when comparing blu-ray to hd-dvd - they are actually the SAME encoded files, any quality that people are comparing is based on the players available on the market. You do understand that blu-ray and HD-DVD are simply storage formats.. The actual Hd-def movie files on each disc are compatible.. either VC1 or H264 encoded. That means in theory copy protection aside, you could put a HD-DVD movie onto a blu-ray disc and have the exact same quality file. Its true sony has made mistakes.. Held back good titles on blu-ray and put out a few lousy encodes (however that was the studio's encoding departments not a fault of the technology). The technology behind the format war is storage media. You get more capacity on a blu-ray disc than you do on HD-DVD. Just an example of this.. the Lord of the Rings - Return of the King captured from C-More HD Satellite clocks in a 36 GB. This would not fit on an HD-DVD dual layer. It would need to be compressed at a lower rate, especially if it is to have extras and multiple audio-tracks.
While HD-DVD may be winning, its no suprise.. the good titles haven't come out yet, and there are few blu-ray players on the market.

Fact still remains, you won't be watching Sony Pictures/MGM/Fox on HD-DVD.. So you know if you are a fan of star wars/alien/bond etc. you'll be out of luck for now.

It's all too bad really, if they could have all agreed the consumers like us wouldn't have to suffer through this.


Also just for completeness here, because I'm stick of people always throwing out how expensive PS3 is:
$299 (core) + $199 (hd-addon) = $500
$399 (premium) + $199 (hd-add) = $600

In Xbox world for $500 you get
Wired Controller, no hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS3 world for $500 you get
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Blu-Ray, HDMI


In Xbox world for $600 you get:
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS world for $600 you get
Wireless Controller, 60 GB hard drive, Built in Wifi, Blu-ray, HDMI, Memory reader Slots

For someone who wants the features the price comparison makes more sense. I'm not denying that someone without an HD- tv set wouldn't care about either the hd-dvd or the blu-ray

This post has been edited by puppydg68: Nov 5 2006, 04:15 PM

[Madskilz182]

I've been reading this thread for 2 days now and I'm really getting tired of this argueing. Everybody is doing math and calculations, and debating about encoding of audio and blah blah blah. Guys if you don't think its worth your money, don't buy it and let that be that. Its also very possible with the next dash upgrade that the problems you people have with audio could be fixed and more to your liking. They improve with every dashboard upgrade. You may not get it all at once but give it time. If you think you prefer Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, thats fine, go for it...... but quit starting lame ass debates about which is better. Just say, I think I like Blu-Ray or I think I want an HD-DVD player and let that be that.
Personally I'm gonna buy the 360 HD-DVD drive... later on I may even choose to get a Blu-Ray player. But im not going to sit at home and cry because as of the moment the 360 HD-DVD is outputting in DD. The world is going to keep rotating. If you think you get more of what you want for your money from a PS3 go for it. Just quit bickering back and forth, its pitiful....

[thax]

Standalone players are the way to go. I have personally burned out several DVD players, the lasers and motors go because of the amount of use they get.

It would really suck to use your PS3 as a blu-ray player all the time and have the components worn out due to excessive use. The x360's extra drive somewhat mitigates this problem by having an extra drive, you can get twice the runtime with 2 drive units.

If you really watch a great deal of movies then I would avoid using the PS3 as your main player, with a MTBF of about 10,000 hours you will need to be replacing parts of buying a new unit down the road.

I would rather have a dedicated hybrid player that supports both formats, I won't be getting any player until that happens. In addition the hybrid players usually support multiple file formats, I could burn lots of divx or wmv files on a blu-ray or hd-dvd disc depending on what media is the cheapest.

Those on the blu-ray or hd-dvd bandwagon are making sub-optimal choices.

[JohnnyVegas]

Also just for completeness here, because I'm stick of people always throwing out how expensive PS3 is:
$299 (core) + $199 (hd-addon) = $500
$399 (premium) + $199 (hd-add) = $600

In Xbox world for $500 you get
Wired Controller, no hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS3 world for $500 you get
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Blu-Ray, HDMI
In Xbox world for $600 you get:
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS world for $600 you get
Wireless Controller, 60 GB hard drive, Built in Wifi, Blu-ray, HDMI, Memory reader Slots

You forget a few important features with the 360..

IT ACUALLY HAS GAMES!! The PS3 will not have a nice title till next holiday at least and by that time the 360 games will be well formed and have larger inventory.

You also get access to the best Online service in the gaming community.

You also get a good track record of quality parts and service unlike Sony parts (hello PS2, TV, stereos of late).

Migration with your existing Media Center and home PC's (MCE/Vista) and more options for better intagration in the future. As home PC becomes more intagrated so will your 360.

PC (ms Studios) online gaming will be intergrated with Live. How cool.

MS did the right thing here. This is an entry level player. Gives you the OPTION unlike Sony.
more...


If you "Audiofiles" are so serious why would you buy a Video game HD player anyway? Get a standalone ass hats.

[sinister slipknot]

You forget a few important features with the 360..

IT ACUALLY HAS GAMES!!

[Gmc]

i LOL'd too

[Madskilz182]

Now if MS could just come up with a 360 model that could make me pancakes in the morning...... exra syrup please

[Caldor]

It's funny how some of you try to put your argument across. You ignore the other person's points and then ad nasuem repeat your doctrine and lace it with attacks against the man. Or is school out and all the children are posting?

A standalone is not necessarily higher quality then a HTPC or the PS3, the 360 is lower quality due to the absence of HDMI.

The point the MS apologists seem to gloss over is that the PS3 fully supports the high def era - you don't have to be forced into a low end solution like the MS addon. And, you dont have to fork out over a $US1000+ for a good BD player.

There are more problems too as I explained earlier.

All of these would be fixed if MS released a HDMI cable and then not only would the AV be good, but the things the xbox currently does well like live and games would provide a brutal match of capabilities.

[silentbob343]

I can understand your destain for sony since you are obviously a fanboy, however when comparing blu-ray to hd-dvd - they are actually the SAME encoded files, any quality that people are comparing is based on the players available on the market. You do understand that blu-ray and HD-DVD are simply storage formats.. The actual Hd-def movie files on each disc are compatible.. either VC1 or H264 encoded. That means in theory copy protection aside, you could put a HD-DVD movie onto a blu-ray disc and have the exact same quality file.

I was going to post that, but got lazy and didn't want to add more fuel to the fire. Glad somebody did.

You forget a few important features with the 360..

IT ACUALLY HAS GAMES!! The PS3 will not have a nice title till next holiday at least and by that time the 360 games will be well formed and have larger inventory.

You also get access to the best Online service in the gaming community.

You also get a good track record of quality parts and service unlike Sony parts (hello PS2, TV, stereos of late).

lol that is stupid. It's a new system of course it won't have the same library of games the 360 out of the gate, but it does have games available upon launch and plenty more will be made for the system. "Nice title" is subjective and depnds on what games you like to play.

Please don't talk about quality and MS, "Help my 360 flashing is 3 red lights"..."Oh that's easy just take a heatgun to it".

Here is what it comes down to. Some people see the value of the PS3 and want to purchase one, you don't and thus own the 360.

This post has been edited by silentbob343: Nov 6 2006, 12:21 AM

[elmo_sni]

come on guys, stop trying to convince the guy next to you to buy a ps3 or 360. In the end it's all about the games anyway.

[silentbob343]

come on guys, stop trying to convince the guy next to you to buy a ps3 or 360. In the end it's all about the games anyway.

well said.

[jackbutler]

I can understand your destain for sony since you are obviously a fanboy, however when comparing blu-ray to hd-dvd - they are actually the SAME encoded files, any quality that people are comparing is based on the players available on the market. You do understand that blu-ray and HD-DVD are simply storage formats.. The actual Hd-def movie files on each disc are compatible.. either VC1 or H264 encoded. That means in theory copy protection aside, you could put a HD-DVD movie onto a blu-ray disc and have the exact same quality file.

Just wanted to jump in and point out one thing here. There are actually 3 video codecs that can be used and they are H.264, MPEG-2 or VC1 and guess what most , if not all, Blue-Ray movies have used? MPEG-2. Thats why they dont hold up visually to HD-DVDs right now.....

Oh and I will be getting the HD-DVD addon when it comes out

This post has been edited by jackbutler: Nov 6 2006, 05:19 AM

[silentbob343]

Just wanted to jump in and point out one thing here. There are actually 3 video codecs that can be used and they are H.264, MPEG-2 or VC1 and guess what most , if not all, Blue-Ray movies have used? MPEG-2. Thats why they dont hold up visually to HD-DVDs right now.....

Oh and I will be getting the HD-DVD addon when it comes out

That is true, one theory I have heard was the cost associated with mastering films in VC-1. I think the video codec of choice for BD is supposed to be h.264/AVC, but admittly I am out of loop as far as what studios are planning to do. Again though, his point was that it wasn't the disc, but rather the studios making that choice causing lower levels of PQ.

[notguiltystyle]

Also just for completeness here, because I'm stick of people always throwing out how expensive PS3 is:
$299 (core) + $199 (hd-addon) = $500
$399 (premium) + $199 (hd-add) = $600

In Xbox world for $500 you get
Wired Controller, no hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS3 world for $500 you get
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Blu-Ray, HDMI
In Xbox world for $600 you get:
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS world for $600 you get
Wireless Controller, 60 GB hard drive, Built in Wifi, Blu-ray, HDMI, Memory reader Slots

For someone who wants the features the price comparison makes more sense. I'm not denying that someone without an HD- tv set wouldn't care about either the hd-dvd or the blu-ray

Im not a PS3 fan but I have to agree that the PS3 (for HD) is better value than The Xbox 360!

[youloseagain]

A standalone is not necessarily higher quality then a HTPC or the PS3, the 360 is lower quality due to the absence of HDMI.

All of these would be fixed if MS released a HDMI cable and then not only would the AV be good, but the things the xbox currently does well like live and games would provide a brutal match of capabilities.

HDMI=DRM

Screw that.