SCEA Comments on PS3 Resolution on Older HDTVs Options

[silentbob343]

it's not so much as who made the hdmi cable or what quality it is, but how your individual PS3 handshakes with the cable and your tele.

very true. Have you looked at firmware updates for your display?

[mlmadmax]

The flickering is only noticeable in the dash not really in the game.

What tv's have firmware updates?

This post has been edited by mlmadmax: Nov 25 2006, 06:16 AM

[silentbob343]

The flickering is only noticeable in the dash not really in the game.

What tv's have firmware updates?

I don't have a list and it’s not every display. It’s up to the manufacturer to decide if they will release/support updates. Most displays that support firmware updates need to be updated with a service technician. Some receivers and DVD players can also be updated. Sometimes a feature is implemented before a standard is finalized, etc. The more complex CE devices become the greater the chance of FW updates.

I was just wondering if their particular displays can be updated as a possible solution to their issue.

This post has been edited by silentbob343: Nov 25 2006, 07:19 AM

[silentbob343]

Fuel for the fire

A TV that cannot handle 720p is not legally entitled to be called an HDTV. Also, the only TVs I know of that will accept 1080i but not 720p are CRT-based sets (direct-view or rear-projection.) Until two years ago, all plasma and LCD direct-view panels, and all microdisplay-based sets, were natively 720p.

A post such as this one that fails to denounce any and all broadcasters who happen to broadcast OTA in 720p (e.g. local ABC and FOX stations,) on behalf of all those whose psuedo-HDTV sets can't handle 720p signals, is monstrously hypocritical.

Don't blame Sony for your own failure to purchase an HDTV.

Not true. Some HDTV ready CRT rear projector 3 years back could not accept 720p.

My 57HDX82 57 CRT RP from Toshiba was bought in 2003 and an expensive feature of it was the ability to accept 720p signals (it converts them to 540p and then displays them at 1080i). A lot of sets in 2002 2003 with DVI did not accept 720p.

Also a lot of sets can acccept 720P but don't signal that as a supported resolution. Thats one of the PS3 problems. A lot of earlier LCD displays also don't have a native 720p display, they convert everything to a oddball native resolution like 768p. They can accept 720p signals but display them in their native 768p.

I think the issue here is not whether or not the display can accept 720p it is the PS3 not sending a 720p signal if the set is not giving that ID as a native resolution. The PS3 then downconverts automatically to 480p and the 720p stream never gets to the display to be converted.

No, some non-HDTVs (pseudo-HDTVs) from 3-years back could not accept 720p.

768p is not legally an HDTV resolution, and is not defined by the HDTV spec, nor mandated by US Federal law. And the 768p issue that affects some microdisplays and panels should not be wrongly conflated with the deficiencies of older CRT-based sets (which are natively 1080i.)

It might be good customer relations for Sony to graciously support pseudo-HDTVs, but the blame justly lies with whoever manufactured and purchased TVs that don't conform to the HDTV spec (and apparently, Sony happens to be one of the offending manufacturerrs--but that has nothing to do with the Sony games division.)

[mlmadmax]

Sony screwed up on this issue plain and simple, and 1080i is absolutly an HD standard and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

When you play a game in 1080p and it downconverts all 720p games to 480p that is just a serious flaw and I hope sony gets of there lazy ass and fixes it.

Also not being able to upconvert standard dvds are they kidding me.

[silentbob343]

Sony screwed up on this issue plain and simple, and 1080i is absolutly an HD standard and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

When you play a game in 1080p and it downconverts all 720p games to 480p that is just a serious flaw and I hope sony gets of there lazy ass and fixes it.

Also not being able to upconvert standard dvds are they kidding me.

I've have my doubts if they can "fix" this issue and so are they.

Sony has contacted us to let us know that they may have spoken a bit prematurely. SCEA's Dave Karraker, Sr. Director, Corporate Communications, informed GameDaily BIZ that they currently cannot confirm that this 1080i issue will be resolved via a firmware patch. The official line is now that they are "looking into the issue and haven't stated any actions that will be taken regarding it."

Taking resources to scale the image will be hard without a performance hit. We'll wait and see, but I'm doubtful.

[Pheidias]

you all know it took MS almost a year to implement dvd upscaling and 1080p right? They also managed to screw that up so some tvs couldn't display it...

I'd say with all the crappy tvs and lose standards and shoddy connectors running rampant in the hdtv business its no wonder you can't cater to eneryone. If you have a 1080i set that can't do 720p, how do you watch abc as they broadcast in 720p. Don't complain if you bought a crappy tv set, just go out and get yourselfs a device to scale the signal from 720p to 1080i.

This post has been edited by Pheidias: Nov 25 2006, 07:49 PM

[silentbob343]

you all know it took MS almost a year to implement dvd upscaling and 1080p right? They also managed to screw that up so some tvs couldn't display it...

I'd say with all the crappy tvs and lose standards and shoddy connectors running rampant in the hdtv business its no wonder you can't cater to eneryone. If you have a 1080i set that can't do 720p, how do you watch abc as they broadcast in 720p. Don't complain if you bought a crappy tv set, just go out and get yourselfs a device to scale the signal from 720p to 1080i.

I will agree with that. There are plenty of devices that have handshake issues, etc. It usually occurs when a company adopts a feature before a standard is finalized.

The reason nobody notices the ABC broadcast isssue is that the FCC mandates that all tuners output at all resolutions, 480P, 1080i, and 720P. Thus if your TV has a built in tuner it will do the scaling and if you have a cable box it will do the scaling. The FCC does not mandate that a display support resolutions over component, VGA, DVI, etc. Nor does the FCC have control over a display's inputs only the tuners.

This post has been edited by silentbob343: Nov 25 2006, 08:21 PM

[silentbob343]

hmm...saw this over at AVS and thought it was interesting.

Like I said before, it will take a combination of two things to make this go away easily. First, Sony has to allow developers to use the internal hardware scaler. Second developers will have to release a patch for each game that doesn't support 1080i. That will be the easiest way for this to work. If not then each developer would have to patch the game with their own solution on how they handle the scaling as a rendering pass in the game and that will be more complicated cuz then you have to start worrying about a performance hit for the rendering pass. I'm not talking about rendering the game initially at 1080, but a rendering pass that will scale the output image after the core rendering is done.

Again, I've been saying this from the beginning yet people still continue to not read what has been said. A simple firmware patch from Sony is IMPOSSIBLE. It won't happen and there's nothing that can be done about it. It will have to come from the developers side in order for this to get fixed.

The interesting part is the mention of a hardware scaler in the PS3, the rest is what I have been saying if they try to do it in software. Another poster makes mention of the hardware scaler in a post claiming; "Sony is acknowledging on restricted developer documentation that they do have a scaler but they aren't using it, at least not for games." I would ask our resident developer if the PS3 does indeed have a hardware scaler and if it could be utilized, but I know the NDA won't allow him to.

This post has been edited by silentbob343: Nov 25 2006, 09:21 PM

[mlmadmax]

Not haveing a scaler in the ps3 is an issue for people with 1080p and 720p tvs as well.

game is 1080p, dash is at 1080p, tv is 1080p= game is displayed at 1080p

game is 720p,dash is 1080p, tv is 1080p= game is displayed at 480p

Take your blinders off and realize Sony dropped the ball end of story.

[silentbob343]

Not haveing a scaler in the ps3 is an issue for people with 1080p and 720p tvs as well.

game is 1080p, dash is at 1080p, tv is 1080p= game is displayed at 1080p

game is 720p,dash is 1080p, tv is 1080p= game is displayed at 480p

Take your blinders off and realize Sony dropped the ball end of story.

Who are you talking to? This thread is about Sony trying to fix the issue, possible solutions, and why more than a FW update might be needed. The PS3 does have a scaler for whateve crazy reason Sony didn't want developers to utilize it. Some theories were posted, but again just speculation.

This post has been edited by silentbob343: Nov 26 2006, 02:08 AM

[epsilon72]

Not haveing a scaler in the ps3 is an issue for people with 1080p and 720p tvs as well.

game is 1080p, dash is at 1080p, tv is 1080p= game is displayed at 1080p

game is 720p,dash is 1080p, tv is 1080p= game is displayed at 480p

Take your blinders off and realize Sony dropped the ball end of story.

Where are you getting this from? Virtually all 1080p (not i ) tv's support 720p, because they have enough pixels to do so. The problem with 1080i CRT's is that they can only do a max of 540 lines per frame - so 720 lines is out of the question.

This post has been edited by epsilon72: Nov 26 2006, 06:12 AM

[silentbob343]

heh good catch I just glossed over that.

[mlmadmax]

It is not because a 1080p TV can't do 720p; it is because the ps3 won't switch between 1080p and 720p.

If you are playing a 1080p game and have the PS3 set to 1080p and than put a 720p game in the PS3 converts the 720p game to 480p. You than have to manually set the PS3 to 720p again to get the 720p game in 720p.

I have had to do this on a 1080p TV myself and it is not BS it is a stupid design and a huge fuck up on Sony’s behalf. You would think something like this would not have slipped by testers.

As far as them fixing it I hope they can work something out although I doubt they can. The PS3 has potential but I think this is a big screw up.

Also bob saying the ps3 even has a scaler is very debatable and also speculation on your part.

This post has been edited by mlmadmax: Nov 27 2006, 05:00 AM

[silentbob343]

It is not because a 1080p TV can't do 720p; it is because the ps3 won't switch between 1080p and 720p.

If you are playing a 1080p game and have the PS3 set to 1080p and than put a 720p game in the PS3 converts the 720p game to 480p. You than have to manually set the PS3 to 720p again to get the 720p game in 720p.

I have had to do this on a 1080p TV myself and it is not BS it is a stupid design and a huge fuck up on Sony’s behalf. You would think something like this would not have slipped by testers.

As far as them fixing it I hope they can work something out although I doubt they can. The PS3 has potential but I think this is a big screw up.

Also bob saying the ps3 even has a scaler is very debatable and also speculation on your part.

Yes, it is speculation, but found it interesting and it was said by an apparent insider. Of course this is the internet and he could be some bored guy on the computer feeding us crap.

This post has been edited by silentbob343: Nov 27 2006, 05:14 AM