Ps3 Not Hd Capable Out Of The Box., No HDMI or Component cables included. Options

[twistedsymphony]

Exactly what part of:

** Video output in HD requires cables and an HD-compatible display, both sold separately.

did you not understand?

Not only that 1080p is listed on both consoles because it's supported on BOTH consoles not just the 60GB version... the 20GB version supports it via component cabes... WHICH ARE SOLD SEPARATELY

it only mentions that you need HDMI for:

Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with the HDCP standard.

Elementary school reading comprehension will tell you the following DIRECTLY

-resolution of 720p, 1080i, and 1080p will require the purchase of additional cables
-for Blu-Ray video discs to display at a resolution of 1080p will require the purchase of an HDMI cable

the following can be implied:
-the console does not include component video cables, VGA or HDMI cables (otherwise it wouldn't require the purchase of additional cables for video output in HD )
-480p is most likely not supported out of the box either since it requires the same type of cables.
-1080p games can be played using an HD connection other then HDMI since HDMI is only explicitly required for Blu-Ray video discs to produce a 1080p output

The fact that the ** refers to HD resolutions in general should tip you off that it applies to the entire line of text in the spec sheet as opposed to just 1080p. Besides, the APA standard notes that *s and other markers in text simply implies that you should insert the below marked text at that point. it does NOT explicitly mean that the text only applies to the immediately preceding word. This standard is taught at all public high schools in the US. If you didn't get then them I'm sorry but you fail High school English comprehension.

This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Sep 12 2006, 01:57 PM

[Martinchris23]

I was told otherwise but eh, ok. I didn't know that. 1080p technology is so new that knowledge about it is pretty rare. Same with 1080p content. In most of the new HDTV models I've seen, 1080p was only compatiable through HDMI, like this http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/LCDTV/L...=Specifications

That's the TV im getting, but I don't mind that it can't do 1080p over component, as I can just get a 600 model that has HDMI.

What I find really funny is that the one thing people (like yourself) are pushing is the fact the PS3 can output at 1080p, considering you haven't the foggiest idea what 1080p is.

[twistedsymphony]

What I find really funny is that the one thing people (like yourself) are pushing is the fact the PS3 can output at 1080p, considering you haven't the foggiest idea what 1080p is.

It's true... trying to output in 1080p on that display would actually look WORSE then if you output in 720p

Just because the TV can ACCEPT the 1080p signal doesn't mean it will actually DISPLAY a 1080p signal.

the TV's native resolution is roughly equivalent to 720p, for the best possible picture you want to feed it a signal closest to it's native resolution. The reason being is that fixed pixel displays (like an LCD, DLP, or Plasma) can only ever display 1 resolution. Their pixels define a resolution and that's the only rez it will ever display. Since that isn't very compatible itself they add a scaler chip that will convert other resolutions to what the screen can actually display.

if you send it 480i... it will display 720p
if you send it 480p... it will display 720p
if you send it 720p... it will display 720p
if you send it 1080i... it will display 720p
if you send it 1080p... it will display 720p

does that make sense?

Typically the internal scalers are hit or miss. if you send it 480i it might have to work hard to up-scale your image, if the scaler is a crappy one that 480i signal will look worse on your new HDTV then it did on your old SD CRT. Simply because the signal wasn't meant to be stretched up to a 720p resolution.

Similarly the scaler will most likely do a so-so job squishing down a 1080p signal... looking worse then on a "native" 1080p display (which are next to non-existent and very expensive) not just because it's a lower resolution but because your squishing down the signal and letting it filter through the TVs scaler.

By sending the TV a 720p signal from the start the scaler chip in the TV is doing next to nothing, it's not futzing with your signal not to mention you don't have to worry about the scaler chip adding LAG while it processes the signal (which some do).

To be perfectly honest when the PS3 outputs in 720p it's most likely going to render the game directly to that resolution (the Xbox 360 is capable of this, there is no reason to believe the PS3 wouldn't be able to), then it can be fed directly into the display with little to no intervention from the scaler chip. This give you the best looking picture on your specific display. At 1080p however there is debate as to how many games will actually render at this resolution. If you have your output set to 1080p and the game does not render to that resolution it will render at 720p, the PS3's scaler will scale it up to 1080p then your TVs scaler will scale it back down to 720p before displaying it to you. The problem is you have all these processors sticking their fingers in your video signal, and the resultant output will most likely look worse then a normal 720p signal...

The PS3 scaler will add image information that wasn't originally there, then the TVs scaler will remove some of that dummy info but it will also probably remove some of the original video info as well, resulting in a picture that just isn't as good as it could be.

Not to mention that what ghost of a standard there is for 1080p calls only for 30FPS, while 720p supports 60FPS. So using your 720p display to run 1080p content you'd also be cutting your frame rate in half for no good reason.

1080p is great, it's better then 720p, but only when ALL of the equipment involved runs normally at that resolution. I can put a trailer hitch on my sedan and use it to haul a boat... it will get the job done but it wont do it very well. I really want to be driving a pickup truck with a trailer hitch to haul a boat, or you could downgrade your boat to something like a jetski that your sedan can haul without a problem. Similarly a 720p TV can haul a 1080p signal, it will get the job done but it wont do it very well, you'd be much better off using a 1080p TV to haul a 1080p signal, or you could downgrade your signal to 720p that your 720p TV can haul without a problem.

[Kira Yamoto]

What I find really funny is that the one thing people (like yourself) are pushing is the fact the PS3 can output at 1080p, considering you haven't the foggiest idea what 1080p is.

PS3 can output 1080p moron, do you know what BluRay is? If not, go research it and find out for yourself. That's what the HDMI output is there for christs sake. While people are still clueless as to how the PS3 will display 1080p in GAMES, 1080p display in MOVIES is a surefire thing. If you didn't know that, you're more of a moron than I thought. Btw, Gran Turismo Vision is currently the only game thats slated to support 1080p. We'll see if it's scaled or true when it comes out.

You didn't need to "educate" me on Interlaced and Progressive, I know more about those than any other regular joe schmoe. Ok so I was a little behind on 1080p and the new displays, I don't have all the time in the world to learn about in such a short amount of time. I even admitted that I didn't know all that much about 1080p. But my instinct alone told me hey, it supports 1080p thru HDMI, but it only has 1366x768, red flag raised. Still, the manufacturer listed their HDMI input as 1080p supported, as well as the Panasonic model that you ignored, that one even had it explicitly stated. It doesn't take a beating to get that info into my head, or any sort of bashing w/ the use of words. I'm well educated and I can learn for myself, when people correct me, then I make sure and go learn about it so I wouldn't make that mistake again. Good lord give it a fuckin break. I am only human, and sometimes I do get lazy and get off-track. I'm not a fuckin moron so don't talk to me like one.

It accepts the 1080p signal and displays it, regardless of if its 1366x768 native or not. I'm pretty sure you already read Kage and twisted's posts. Twisted's post explains it pretty well.

twistedsymphony:

I understood quite perfectly. I already knew what the claimer implied and whatnot, but I don't think that it was meant for the entire line, just 1080p, and if you read my rephrase of that little bit, it really does start to make more sense that it only pertained to 1080p, and HDMI cable. You also ignored the fact that HDMI cable was mentioned as not included, but no mention of component anywhere, even though you CLAIM that they're talking about ALL video modes, and not just 1080p. That doesnt fit in with how the part sounds and it's objective. While it IS true that it also talked about the other video modes as well, again, it comes back to not fitting with what they were talking about, w/ 1080p and HDMI. I think that the nature of the disclaimer allowed it to refer to other modes as well (thus the confusion about if they also meant component cables won't be included), when it was supposed to only refer to specifically 1080p.

I think that they worded it wrong, and that it only pertained to 1080p. You can go ahead and call me all the names you want, but sites do make typos, and at times they are corrected. When the package details come out, I'm pretty sure it will include a component cable, which will make me right, yet again. Because of that, this is my last post in this thread.

This post has been edited by Kira Yamoto: Sep 12 2006, 08:16 PM

[incognegro]

PS3 can output 1080p moron, do you know what BluRay is? If not, go research it and find out for yourself. That's what the HDMI output is there for christs sake. While people are still clueless as to how the PS3 will display 1080p in GAMES, 1080p display in MOVIES is a surefire thing. If you didn't know that, you're more of a moron than I thought. Btw, Gran Turismo Vision is currently the only game thats slated to support 1080p. We'll see if it's scaled or true when it comes out.

Umm u did read what he said right?

He was NOT saying the ps3 cannot do 1080p. He was saying that its ridiculous that people boast about the ps3 doing 1080p YET they dont know what it means or what it is. I repeat, He was not saying the ps3 was not saying the ps3 cant do 1080p.

Just want to clear that.

This post has been edited by incognegro: Sep 12 2006, 08:23 PM

[twistedsymphony]

The reason they don't specifically mention component video cables is because there are a NUMBER of cables types that could possibly carry an HD signal:

Colorstream (aka component)
RGB
SCART (RGB)
VGA
DVI-I
DVI-D
M1
HDMI
J-D (H4)


IF the PS3 is anything like the Xbox it will support at least 5 of those cable types excluding HDMI, considering it DOES support HDMI it's not out of the question that the PS3 might offer every one of those options. It makes a whole lot more sense for them to put "cables" instead of listing all of those mentioned above, particularly where fine print is concerned.

Basing your argument on the assumption that the site has typo is ridiculous. It would have been nice if you had at least bothered to take the time to read all of what I wrote and thought about it before you typed a response, you might have realized that I covered your mis-interpretation as well.

[NicoBech]

PS3 can output 1080p moron, do you know what BluRay is? If not, go research it and find out for yourself. That's what the HDMI output is there for christs sake. While people are still clueless as to how the PS3 will display 1080p in GAMES, 1080p display in MOVIES is a surefire thing. If you didn't know that, you're more of a moron than I thought. Btw, Gran Turismo Vision is currently the only game thats slated to support 1080p. We'll see if it's scaled or true when it comes out.

You didn't need to "educate" me on Interlaced and Progressive, I know more about those than any other regular joe schmoe. Ok so I was a little behind on 1080p and the new displays, I don't have all the time in the world to learn about in such a short amount of time. I even admitted that I didn't know all that much about 1080p. But my instinct alone told me hey, it supports 1080p thru HDMI, but it only has 1366x768, red flag raised. Still, the manufacturer listed their HDMI input as 1080p supported, as well as the Panasonic model that you ignored, that one even had it explicitly stated. It doesn't take a beating to get that info into my head, or any sort of bashing w/ the use of words. I'm well educated and I can learn for myself, when people correct me, then I make sure and go learn about it so I wouldn't make that mistake again. Good lord give it a fuckin break. I am only human, and sometimes I do get lazy and get off-track. I'm not a fuckin moron so don't talk to me like one.

It accepts the 1080p signal and displays it, regardless of if its 1366x768 native or not. I'm pretty sure you already read Kage and twisted's posts. Twisted's post explains it pretty well.

twistedsymphony:

I understood quite perfectly. I already knew what the claimer implied and whatnot, but I don't think that it was meant for the entire line, just 1080p, and if you read my rephrase of that little bit, it really does start to make more sense that it only pertained to 1080p, and HDMI cable. You also ignored the fact that HDMI cable was mentioned as not included, but no mention of component anywhere, even though you CLAIM that they're talking about ALL video modes, and not just 1080p. That doesnt fit in with how the part sounds and it's objective. While it IS true that it also talked about the other video modes as well, again, it comes back to not fitting with what they were talking about, w/ 1080p and HDMI. I think that the nature of the disclaimer allowed it to refer to other modes as well (thus the confusion about if they also meant component cables won't be included), when it was supposed to only refer to specifically 1080p.

I think that they worded it wrong, and that it only pertained to 1080p. You can go ahead and call me all the names you want, but sites do make typos, and at times they are corrected. When the package details come out, I'm pretty sure it will include a component cable, which will make me right, yet again. Because of that, this is my last post in this thread.

1: from what i understand Grand Turismo HD isn't a game... only a mock-up the team did to show a game in 1080P and most other (if not every other) games will output in 720P...

2: Sony is taking their "the HD era start with us" statement very serious... every LCD i see marked with HD-ready doesn't support 1080P. the two stars states that video HD output requires cables and a HD capable display... so either is Sony claiming that 720P isn't HD and only 1080P is HD... or Sony isn't including cables in the package (component or HDMI) ....or Sony simply made a typo...
/Nicolai

[Martinchris23]

PS3 can output 1080p moron

I'm sure this has relevance somewhere, as I sure as hell haven't said otherwise!

You didn't need to "educate" me on Interlaced and Progressive, I know more about those than any other regular joe schmoe

Really? Let's see...

It accepts the 1080p signal and displays it, regardless of if its 1366x768 native or not.

Nope - you still haven't got it. For 1080p output you NEED to have the ability to output a native resolution of 1920 x 1080. Why on earth do you think that 1080p capable TVs are so damned expensive? You really think people are buying them for the fun of it?

I'll say it nice and slowly for you..

1080p output needs a native resolution of 1920 x 1080

I hope you enjoyed calling me a F***ing moron - it really doesn't bother me all that much, because it's you who's saying it. Sticks and stones n all that jazz.

You can go ahead and call me all the names you want

No thanks - I'd rather not stoop to your level.

this is my last post in this thread

Amen.

[yourM0M]

No thanks - I'd rather not stoop to your level.

Amen.

Here, Here....welcome to the ps3 section of the forums get used to it i guess....its good to have ya around martin missed ya since my days of posting on t-x....lol

anyway i think this topic has been beat to death now but ive got a comment.....has anyone not thought about the fact that the ** doesnt just pertain to 1080p, since it reads "Video output in HD requires cables and an HD-compatible display, both sold separately" 1080p isnt the only Hi-Def output in that list of outputs so that leads back to the fact that NO COMPONENT cables will be included either (just a thought)

[twistedsymphony]

*sigh* look up about 6 posts from yours

[KAGE360]

i dont understand how someone can be so ignorant. even IF the site he is talking about had typo, what are the chances of the other site i quoted having not only the same typo, but also more elaberation that there wont be any HD cables with the system....

The price of Sony's upcoming PlayStation 3 has been the subject of much debate. The system will come in $499 and $599 packages, the latter including a larger hard drive, built-in wireless network capabilities, and an HDMI port. However, according to Sony's own official PS3 Web site, the system won't come with the cables necessary to carry an HDMI signal, or any high-definition signal, for that matter.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6157113....13&tag=nl.e513

When the package details come out, I'm pretty sure it will include a component cable, which will make me right, yet again.

not to be an ass, but i dont remember a time where you were right. sure you spew out useless babble that we all know, but in your twisted thinking that the ps3 can display games at 1080p because of a ps2 port there is something wrong with that.

Because of that, this is my last post in this thread.

i love how when your backed in a corner, instead of seeing the truth and actually learning something new you will just back out with the idea you are right. do you not understand how you are setting yourself up for many falls. youll want to leave the forum after the ps3's launch because a lot of what you claim will be shoved back in your face. i wonder what kind of excuse will you say when the ps3 does not come with HD cables and people start reminding you of your ignorance.

I'm pretty sure you already read Kage and twisted's posts. Twisted's post explains it pretty well.

wow he actually recognized something i said to be fact. go figure when its not against the ps3 he believes what i type, even though he himself still has not learned what twisted and i have been trying to explain.

[punge]

what i wonder is how the people who dont know anything about HD but own HDTVs are going to figure this out. i have a buddy who's parents own a HDTV and think that everything they view on their TV is true/native HD when its not......

in regards to this situation: buddy A goes over buddy B's house and see's 360 in high def and gets excited about owning a ps3 for high def. Buddy A gets home with his ps3 and HDTV (not knowing anything about HD like a lot of the public) and hooks it up but looks nothing like the 360 because its not running on HD cables, Buddy B gets sour impression because games (or blue ray movies for that matter) look like ass compared to other HD mediums.

i know this scenario is not likely to be commen but when i think back to how many 360 kiosks were set up incorrectly because there are soo many fools out there that know nothing/little about HD it seems more probable. Hell just the other day i went to a walmart and passed by a 360 kiosk thinking it looked weird, when checking the display setting (on the 360 itself) it was still set up to display at 480p.

I was at a friends house watching his 360 and couldn't believe that his HD tv wasn't displaying the graphics that it was supposed too. He thought it was alright as well but not spectacular. I offered to check the settings and it was still on 480p. I quickly changed it to 720p through the settings and next thing you know he was amazed by the difference.

Consumers out there are going to have a hard time not reading the manuals and expecting HD out the box if they can't do something so simple.

[KAGE360]

I was at a friends house watching his 360 and couldn't believe that his HD tv wasn't displaying the graphics that it was supposed too. He thought it was alright as well but not spectacular. I offered to check the settings and it was still on 480p. I quickly changed it to 720p through the settings and next thing you know he was amazed by the difference.

Consumers out there are going to have a hard time not reading the manuals and expecting HD out the box if they can't do something so simple.

thats exactly what im talking about. i understand that a lot of 360 owners can also suffer from this, as we see with your friend and my experiences with the kiosks, but at least with the 360 they are given the option/chance of figuring out how to work it. if the ps3 really has no HD cables, then they are stuck with normal resolutions even after they figure out they are being robbed on visual quality.

[yourM0M]

Kaz Hirai and Ken Kutaragi both leaned towards "no" as to the inclusion of component cables in the box.

just to bring everyone up to date on this topic....it still stands true....yet....."When the ps3 launches HD gaming launches" lmao

[kidkinetix]

Kaz Hirai and Ken Kutaragi both leaned towards "no" as to the inclusion of component cables in the box.

just to bring everyone up to date on this topic....it still stands true....yet....."When the ps3 launches HD gaming launches" lmao

It seems foolish not to have the cable but it's a complete Catch 22.... There is no way Sony is going to package every PS3 with an HDMI cable, and if you want the best of the best out of the PS3, you want more than a component Cable. It seems kind of foolish to hand a guy a component cable and say 'go check out 1080p on this Blu-Ray movie!'.

Considering the limited launch numbers Retailers would be very wise to Force a cable (one of your choosing) on you in a bundle.

It is very good to see a pure HDMI port on the back and not just a single PS3 propriatery AV port; it's nice being able to pick up a cheap 3rd party solution rather than an overpriced MS VGA cable.

This post has been edited by kidkinetix: Sep 25 2006, 10:21 PM