Racism, Is Bush? are you? are we all? Options

[pug_ster]

The protestors came in and protested in that ONE neighborhood. Jesse Jackson came and lecture about racial equality to the high school closest to that ONE neighborhood. The Media portrays the racial hatred in that ONE neighborhood. What do most people in that time conclude? Everyone in that ONE neighborhood is a bunch of racists (and I am not kidding.)

Killings happens every day so why does this one should receive a lot more attention than other killings?

Sure, send the Killer(s) to jail and then the electric chair. But don't prejudge every one else just because there are a few bad apples in that ONE neighborhood, as in there are bad apples in every neighborhood.

This post has been edited by pug_ster: Sep 21 2005, 05:23 AM

[puckSR]

A white mob formed. Do you actually think that the only racist people in that neighborhood were the 30 white guys.

Those 30 white guys were at least under the impression that their actions were tolerable by the neighborhood. Maybe not the murder, but the article you linked to earlier even had a girl saying that black guys dont come around because the guys would rough them up.

If one white guy had killed one black guy, i would definately support you. The fact that 30 white guys formed a public mob and killed that black kid indicates to me that there was at least some general racism in the neighborhood.

If it had been something else, like if 30 girls had been raped. They might have done the same thing. Or if 30 shops had been robbed in a week in that neighborhood. Your thinking 1 kid, 1 incident of racism. The problem is that 30+ people condoned the act. Thats 30+ acts of public racism in one day.

[pug_ster]

Those 30 white guys were at least under the impression that their actions were tolerable by the neighborhood.

You know, it sounds to me that this is a racist statement.

[Psykomantis00]

You know, it sounds to me that this is a racist statement.

Not to me. I believe the statement he mad is true.

[puckSR]

You know, it sounds to me that this is a racist statement.

Those 30 white guys were at least under the impression that their actions were tolerable by the neighborhood.-me

How is that racist? Wait, i think i know what you are going to say, so let me save some space.
The quotes from the neighbors insist that they were not suprised by this action, and that at least some bullying was to be expected. Also, mobs dont normally organize from a small minority of the local population. Normally a mob forms because they believe that enough people support them that they can act in the way they wish. Im not saying that the people do support them, but that the mob believes this. That is why i said " at least under the impression". Between the quotes in your article, and the belief of the mob, some sort of racism must have existed in that neighborhood.
Mobs lynched many black men in the south even into the 1950s. The same actions were rare if never in societies where blacks were more socially accepted. The reason is that you dont normally have mob violence when the motive of the mob is questioned by nearly everyone.

[Psykomantis00]

How is that racist?  Wait, i think i know what you are going to say, so let me save some space. 
The quotes from the neighbors insist that they were not suprised by this action, and that at least some bullying was to be expected.  Also, mobs dont normally organize from a small minority of the local population.  Normally a mob forms because they believe that enough people support them that they can act in the way they wish.  Im not saying that the people do support them, but that the mob believes this.  That is why i said " at least under the impression".  Between the quotes in your article, and the belief of the mob, some sort of racism must have existed in that neighborhood.
Mobs lynched many black men in the south even into the 1950s.  The same actions were rare if never in societies where blacks were more socially accepted.  The reason is that you dont normally have mob violence when the motive of the mob is questioned by nearly everyone.

Ever heard of the phrase "take care of your own?" Thats what Im guessing the italians were thinking because a few people maybe 2 were racist and the rest felt they had to follow.

That was a race crime. I could see a 2 or 3 person group walking around and fighting the one black kid and that could be questionable as to whether it was a hate crime. But 30 people getting together to kill one black kid who was causeing no harm? Come on, even my sister can tell the difference between a square and a circle.

[pug_ster]

Those 30 white guys were at least under the impression that their actions were tolerable by the neighborhood.

You probably have the same mentality of those black protestors and those black activists about this. You think that when those 30 white kids run after those black kids, bystanders would stand by and cheer them on? Most people doesn't want to be a part of it and just want to be left alone. Do you think they are racists?

In any case, you, the black protestors and activists kept b1tching about 'blacks are the victims' in that one neighborhood and handing out punishment to those 30 white kids is not enough. You want the 100,000+ people in that neighborhood to be catagorized as racists (or whatever you want to be called as) just because you think that neighborhood is a breeding ground for so called 'black-haters.' Thus you, and those black activists and protestors are racists because you and those black activists and protestors discriminate against 99%+ of the individuals living in that neighborhood based on the actions on 30 people.

This post has been edited by pug_ster: Sep 21 2005, 08:21 PM

[deftonesmx17]

Those 30 white guys were at least under the impression that their actions were tolerable by the neighborhood.  Maybe not the murder, but the article you linked to earlier even had a girl saying that black guys dont come around because the guys would rough them up.

All I have to say is, what is the difference between this and when gangs form in prominent black neighborhoods and rough up the white kids?

I believe what pug_ster is getting at is why when this happens to a white person, are we not allowed to bring in a bunch of white dudes and use the "race card"? You even said it yourself that because this was a race attack, they had the right to use the race card and had lectures, etc. Well since they can do it, for equality (you know that shit they speak of) whites should be allowed to do this also..........................but they are not because of the blacks. If we did that shit the blacks would pitch a fit, and use a race card.

Just something to think about

This post has been edited by deftonesmx17: Sep 21 2005, 10:20 PM

[puckSR]

All I have to say is, what is the difference between this and when gangs form in prominent black neighborhoods and rough up the white kids?

OOOH, a white lynching? Yeah those happened all the time in NOWHERE

Gangs are a violent group, they are responsible for attacking people of all ethnicity. Black, white, asian, and everyone. They are criminal, and they are bad. So is the Mafia.

This was a mob. This was 30 guys who saw a black kid and chased him down. This is not the same as anything i have ever heard of black kids doing, but please, find me an example.

In any case, you, the black protestors and activists kept b1tching about 'blacks are the victims' in that one neighborhood and handing out punishment to those 30 white kids is not enough. You want the 100,000+ people in that neighborhood to be catagorized as racists (or whatever you want to be called as) just because you think that neighborhood is a breeding ground for so called 'black-haters.' Thus you, and those black activists and protestors are racists because you and those black activists and protestors discriminate against 99%+ of the individuals living in that neighborhood based on the actions on 30 people.

First off, that wouldnt be racist, just stereotyping. Get your terminology straight
Secondly, they dont want everyone in that neighborhood declared a racist, but they do want assholes like you to admit that more than 30 people in that neighborhood are strongly prejudice.

Are you honestly telling me that all 30 racists in the neighborhood happened to be holding a klan rally or something when this black kid happened to walk through?
Im saying that if 30 white kids can suddenly jump up and attack someone because of race, that there are probably enough of them around so that at least 30 were available for this particular murder.

[pug_ster]

First off, that wouldnt be racist, just stereotyping.  Get your terminology straight

So let me get this straight, if white people discriminate against black people, they are racists. If black people discriminate against white people, they are sterotyping. You know, sometimes I don't even know what is the definition of 'racism' anymore because it was reworded so many times by you.

Secondly, they dont want everyone in that neighborhood declared a racist, but they do want assholes like you to admit that more than 30 people in that neighborhood are strongly prejudice.

Are you honestly telling me that all 30 racists in the neighborhood happened to be holding a klan rally or something when this black kid happened to walk through?
Im saying that if 30 white kids can suddenly jump up and attack someone because of race, that there are probably enough of them around so that at least 30 were available for this particular murder.

Great, let's have Jesse Jackson and their fellow black protestors round up all the prejudice people in that neighborhood... 1) The lady who said "If a black kid came in here, he would probably leave right away because the guys would abuse him." 2) People who counterprotest the black protestors telling them to leave. 3) Other dumbass white italian kids who are heard saying the 'n' word. 4) Don't forget to get those italian kids who were not available for this particular murder 5) me:) Jesse Jackson will then go to the city to get a court order, make them take a 'racial sensitivity' course and take an oath to renounce racism against the repressed black folks.

What Jesse Jackson and you want is different than the witch hunt days of McCarthyism hunting for the usual communists. The more you post, the more you sound like the very 'racists' that you are trying to condemn.

[puckSR]

So let me get this straight, if white people discriminate against black people, they are racists. If black people discriminate against white people, they are sterotyping. You know, sometimes I don't even know what is the definition of 'racism' anymore because it was reworded so many times by you.

You want the 100,000+ people in that neighborhood to be catagorized as racists

You didnt say the 100,000 white people, you said the 100,000 people. I assumed mixed ethnicity. If you were trying to say...they wanted the white people in that neighborhood labeled as racists, then yes, that would be racist.-- if some of them were not racist


So that your not confused any more. Here is what i want
1) i want to stop mob violence
2) i want you to admit that the neighborhood "in general" was leaning towards the racist side.(This doesnt mean everyone is a racist. This means that many people are racist. Kinda like the south)
3) I want you to stop moaning that you had to hear a speech about tolerance just because a black kid was violently murdered by a mob for being black.
4) I want you to quit using inappropriate references. McCarthyism was the use of blind scare tactics to maintain political control. You might argue that the black community is using scare tactics, but they are far from blind.
i.e. McCarthy had not idea who was a communist, for all he knew, no one was a communist. Jesse Jackson knows that there are really racists. He knows that there are more than 30 in that neighborhood. He knows that many people are still prejudice.
BEFORE YOU RESPOND
I didnt say that what the black community is doing is completely unlike McCarthyism, i am saying there is enough of a difference to make your comparison somewhat flawed.

This post has been edited by puckSR: Sep 22 2005, 04:35 AM

[pug_ster]

Are we talking about racism here? Or are we talking about what you want me to say. Hell, while you are at it, you can just ask me 'racial sensitivity' course and an oath to renounce racism.

You didnt say the 100,000 white people, you said the 100,000 people. I assumed mixed ethnicity. If you were trying to say...they wanted the white people in that neighborhood labeled as racists, then yes, that would be racist.-- if some of them were not racist

WTF are you talking about?

I will respond to something pertaining to racism or this subject otherwise I will post my usual sarcastic remarks. BTW, if anybody is getting a kick reading my sarcastic comments say 'I'.

[deftonesmx17]

And how lazy do you have to be if you dont read the entire word?

Not very lazy according to research. 79% of people do not read things on the internet word-by-word, so what makes you think they read them letter-by-letter? I saw the word niggerly(which isnt even a word) because I am one of the vast majority that does not read word-by-word let alone letter-by-letter. I suggest you climb back down from the self-righteous podium you have placed yourself upon.

OOOH, a white lynching?  Yeah those happened all the time in NOWHERE

Gangs are a violent group, they are responsible for attacking people of all ethnicity.  Black, white, asian, and everyone.  They are criminal, and they are bad.  So is the Mafia. 

This was a mob.  This was 30 guys who saw a black kid and chased him down.  This is not the same as anything i have ever heard of black kids doing, but please, find me an example. 

Do you know what synonms are?

Synonym - two words that can be interchanged in a context are said to be synonymous relative to that context [syn: equivalent word]

Gang - an association of criminals [syn: pack, ring, mob]
Mob - an association of criminals [syn: gang, pack, ring]

Examples.
A pack of youngsters murder an elderly man.
A ring of youngsters murder an elderly man.
A gang of youngsters murder an elderly man.
A mob of youngsters murder an elderly man.

No way, did you notice how all 4 sentences have the exact same meaning?

Oh and here is one example of those things that happen nowhere

In October 1999, a white man named Troy Knapp was attacked by a mob of black men wielding pipes and trash cans, while riding his bike with a companion in Charleston, SC. Knapp was beaten so severely that part of his skull and brain had to be removed, leaving him barely functional.

Witnesses told Knapp's family that after white police officers arrested a black suspect in connection with the shootings, someone in a group of people was heard saying: "Yeah, we are going to get us a white boy." Seventeen suspects were arrested and charged with second-degree lynching. However, local prosecutor David Schwacke commented, "We haven't been able to establish hate as a motive.

[puckSR]

There are 400,000 words roughly in the english language. The reason that we have so many words in the english language is because we like our language to be specific

a gang(as used by pug_ster and myself) was referring-is an association of criminals. An organized(perhaps loosely) association of criminals
a mob(once again as used by me)-A disorderly crowd of people

A mob can also be an association of criminals,
or can be used to refer to the Mafia
or as a verb it can mean to cram.

Words have different meanings. Yes, sometimes the word gang and mob can mean the same thing, but in the context they were used they are referring to different types of groups.

Not very lazy according to research. 79% of people do not read things on the internet word-by-word, so what makes you think they read them letter-by-letter? I saw the word niggerly(which isnt even a word) because I am one of the vast majority that does not read word-by-word let alone letter-by-letter.  I suggest you climb back down from the self-righteous podium you have placed yourself upon.

Well at least we know your lazy.
The point was that i was making a particular point, about a particular word. I even put the word in quotations.
Lets see what happens when you dont read every letter.
"I shit on your sister"
Now did i say i hit on her, or that i shit on her?
Ok now lets not read words from a sentence
"You are a very annoying smartass man, who has no purpose"
Wait maybe you read that as
"You are a very smart man, who has purpose"
Its wonderful that people are lazy, but if your lazy, i have every right to ridicule you for it.

In October 1999, a white man named Troy Knapp was attacked by a mob of black men wielding pipes and trash cans, while riding his bike with a companion in Charleston, SC. Knapp was beaten so severely that part of his skull and brain had to be removed, leaving him barely functional.

Witnesses told Knapp's family that after white police officers arrested a black suspect in connection with the shootings, someone in a group of people was heard saying: "Yeah, we are going to get us a white boy." Seventeen suspects were arrested and charged with second-degree lynching. However, local prosecutor David Schwacke commented, "We haven't been able to establish hate as a motive.

Well good, you found an example.
I knew that if i put an absolute word like never you would find one.
It was wonderful incentive

Now, that is step one
Step 2:
Prove that it happens at a nearly equal rate. Or on a regular basis.
Another key difference, what was the motive.
In the case of the black young man, it was clearly established that he was attacked simply for being black. He was mistaken for someone else, but the person he was mistaken for was also disliked only because he was black.

Perhaps they though that this young man was guilty of a crime. Or that he had just attacked someone. You didnt make it clear that he was attacked because he was white. Im not ruling out the possibility, but i dont see the clear parallel.

Anyways, i dont really care. You can continue to be mad at black people all you want pug_ster and deftone. They must be really bad. I dont really care.

The funny thing is that you get so mad at black people for "playing the race card". Troy's friends and family are also trying to "play the race card". So are they pricks too for trying to pull the race card in similiar circumstances.

Also, lets say that black people are racist, and hateful, and evil, and whatever else you believe. Why? Because we were racist to begin with, and it started a cycle of hate. Jews hate Nazi's now. They hunt them down and murder them. Thats pretty hateful. No one gets mad at them though. Why? Because we all admit that they have a good reason for hating them.

[Psykomantis00]

There are 400,000 words roughly in the english language.  The reason that we have so many words in the english language is because we like our language to be specific

a gang(as used by pug_ster and myself) was referring-is an association of criminals.  An organized(perhaps loosely) association of criminals
a mob(once again as used by me)-A disorderly crowd of people

A mob can also be an association of criminals,
or can be used to refer to the Mafia
or as a verb it can mean to cram. 

Words have different meanings.  Yes, sometimes the word gang and mob can mean the same thing, but in the context they were used they are referring to different types of groups.
Well at least we know your lazy.
The point was that i was making a particular point, about a particular word.  I even put the word in quotations. 
Lets see what happens when you dont read every letter.
"I shit on your sister"
Now did i say i hit on her, or that i shit on her?
Ok now lets not read words from a sentence
"You are a very annoying smartass man, who has no purpose"
Wait maybe you read that as
"You are a very smart man, who has purpose"
Its wonderful that people are lazy, but if your lazy, i have every right to ridicule you for it.
Well good, you found an example.
I knew that if i put an absolute word like never you would find one.
It was wonderful incentive

Now, that is step one
Step 2:
Prove that it happens at a nearly equal rate.  Or on a regular basis.
Another key difference, what was the motive.
In the case of the black young man, it was clearly established that he was attacked simply for being black.  He was mistaken for someone else, but the person he was mistaken for was also disliked only because he was black.

Perhaps they though that this young man was guilty of a crime.  Or that he had just attacked someone.  You didnt make it clear that he was attacked because he was white.  Im not ruling out the possibility, but i dont see the clear parallel.

Anyways, i dont really care.  You can continue to be mad at black people all you want pug_ster and deftone.  They must be really bad.  I dont really care.

The funny thing is that you get so mad at black people for "playing the race card".  Troy's friends and family are also trying to "play the race card".  So are they pricks too for trying to pull the race card in similiar circumstances.

Also, lets say that black people are racist, and hateful, and evil, and whatever else you believe.  Why?  Because we were racist to begin with, and it started a cycle of hate.  Jews hate Nazi's now.  They hunt them down and murder them.  Thats pretty hateful.  No one gets mad at them though.  Why?  Because we all admit that they have a good reason for hating them.

How do you have the right to ridicule him for being lazy? Nobody has the right to say things about anyone else that is hurtfull or is meant in a derogatory fashion. But people do it anyway, Im guilty of it too, but it doesnt mean I have the right to.

Any black man that doesnt get his way and then say's anything dealing with him being black is racist in thinking that is why something happened to him.

Just so you know, black on white crimes are rather regular, they are just turned around to be regular crimes because apparently black people cant be racist.