Reballed Xbox 360 Still Dies Options

[olddirtyroy]

Hi in need of some info from people that actually do reballing. I have had two xboxs that the gpu's were reballed on with leaded solder and worked great for about a week and then they still red ringed. They have the original microsoft xclamps put back in place with artic silver 5 thermal paste. One was a xenon and the other was a falcon unit. The falcon unit dislpayed the E74 message and the xenon was just showing the three red rings. Do you guys that do the reballing use the original clamps or do you do the bolt mod? Thanks for any help.

[smuddge37]

did you do the reballing? sounds like they weren't reballed at all if you ask me.
perhaps someone just overheated them. 1 week from a reball sounds like you got scammed.

yikes.

[olddirtyroy]

I did the reballing myself, I have some that have yet to die but these two red ringed again and was wondering if it was because of the original xclamps. The others that havent died yet still have the original xclamps also and I wonder if they are just ticking time bombs.

[masterofpuppets]

Just the x clamps alone cannot be enough to cause the red ring you must have done something wrong when you were reballing.

[oedi103]

Try reflowing at slightly higher temperatures, the reflow to the board must have not been complete and some balls didnt melt to the board properly but only made contact with the pressure of the xclamps.With the flexing when powered on it lost contact again.

[olddirtyroy]

Ok ill try reflowing one of them when I get home from work tonight. I originally brought the preheat temp up to 110c and then brought the ir up to 185c so that might not have been hot enough I guess. Should I use a reflow flux on it. I do have some kester 951 but I thought that was for lead free solder.

[MadMaxGR]

Ok ill try reflowing one of them when I get home from work tonight. I originally brought the preheat temp up to 110c and then brought the ir up to 185c so that might not have been hot enough I guess. Should I use a reflow flux on it. I do have some kester 951 but I thought that was for lead free solder.

To solder properly a surface mount chip like the GPU, you must get the temps over 210C. Only this way the reballing will be stable and successfull. Also prefer the pre-heater to be around 150C. This will help to start solder melt down at around 200C and you will not have to keep it warm for longer time than needed.

[olddirtyroy]

I tried to go over 200 once I believe with the leaded solder and the gpu ended up popcorning thats why I stayed with the lower temps. I thought lead solder would melt between 180 and 190c. I will give those higher temps a try. Thanks madmaxgr.

[wlintek]

if it worked right after reball, then failed a week late, this is certainly the temp is not right. for me to solder the GPU with leaded balls, i need both top and bottom nozzles at 265 degree and keep for 60 seconds. pre-heater at 150 degree. temp settings are not the same for different rework stations.

also, i do not use the X-clamp after all. i just use screws and washers but Do Not torque too much. i do not have any returns from all the ones i reballed.

the design of MS X-clamp contributes the level of motherboard warp especially near the GPU area when heat dissipation is not enough. finally, one or more solder balls cracked from solder pads after certain heat-cool cycles.

[olddirtyroy]

Ok about to try the hotter temp reflow. How high up from your preheater do you have the motherboard, do you think this would also affect things.

[wlintek]

my rework station has the clearance of about 1.1cm between bottom nozzle and motherboad. 0.6 cm clearance between top nozzle and motheboard is recommended by the manufacture.

also, during the soldering period, carefully watch the GPU. you should see it sinks a little and soon second time sinks. the first sink is becaue the solder paste is liquifying, the second sink is imporatant because the solder balls are liquifying, that's all we needed. if you don't see the sink, the temp is not right for sure.

from the second sink, you'll need to hold the temp for 20 seconds at least for a good reflow.

This post has been edited by wlintek: Dec 9 2010, 02:23 AM

[olddirtyroy]

Well the xbox is back up and running again. Wlintek I must have a way different station than you, I'm using a T-870A. I have my motherboard about 2 inches above the preheater is that to high? It also seems like it takes a long time to preheat the motherboard. Thanks again.

[oedi103]

Great u got it running again!
At what temperature did you reflow?Leaded solder should melt at ~185degrees.
Optimal reflow temps are 80% from the bottom heater and 20% from the top

[MadMaxGR]

Well the xbox is back up and running again. Wlintek I must have a way different station than you, I'm using a T-870A. I have my motherboard about 2 inches above the preheater is that to high? It also seems like it takes a long time to preheat the motherboard. Thanks again.

2inches are too high. Yes they should be at max.. maybe 1 inch, if i did the convertion right. That is about 2cm. Indeed leaded solder will start liquifying at 185C-190C but to liquify for resoldering you must get over 200C for 1 minute (beyond that, there is risk you will popcorn your chip, like it happened once to you already).

Generally when you reball and you have to solder back to the board, you go +10C from the liqufying temperatures of the the solder. THis will assure, that the liquifying is proper as a whole, not partially. For unleaded solder the temps are another 20C higher.

[brandogg]

You should be using thermocouples if you're reballing or reflowing.