Wii the Death Knell of the Bleeding Edge Console? Options

[Bandit5317]

I hope not.

I'd go back to PC gaming.

Same, but dang it I don't have the money to build a gaming rig powerful enough to run games that look as good as they do on the 360 or PS3. That's one of the things that have always appealed to me about console gaming. When you buy it, you know you're getting a deal for the 360 or PS3 because they both have the latest and greatest technology built in. Quad cores weren't even out until quite a while after the 360 came out, but it still had a 3 core Saturn 5 rocket, which was basically the fastest processor at the time. It also came with AMD's (ATI's) new R600 based GPU which wasn't anywhere near being released for computer graphics cards. At the time the 360 came out, you would've had to have a $2000 gaming rig to keep up with it's performance.

[21cwSpanky]

Same, but dang it I don't have the money to build a gaming rig powerful enough to run games that look as good as they do on the 360 or PS3. That's one of the things that have always appealed to me about console gaming. When you buy it, you know you're getting a deal for the 360 or PS3 because they both have the latest and greatest technology built in. Quad cores weren't even out until quite a while after the 360 came out, but it still had a 3 core Saturn 5 rocket, which was basically the fastest processor at the time. It also came with AMD's (ATI's) new R600 based GPU which wasn't anywhere near being released for computer graphics cards. At the time the 360 came out, you would've had to have a $2000 gaming rig to keep up with it's performance.

I built a "gaming rig" for $1500 including a monitor. That's with 4 gigs of ram and SLI'd 8800's, you could build a rig that could run crysis on medium, bioshock and COD4 on high for about $600-800. In the end you get alot more for the money with the PC.

[dokworm]

the next console round will be different, mainly because a bunch of things will not have changed.

i.e. High definition won't go beyond 1080P in the home.
Bluray or equivalent drives will be at DVD prices and will be 'standard'
The 'base level' of graphics hardware will be beyond the 8800s etc. of today.

So the next-gen console will be a lot cheaper to make, will be easier to make run cooler. 1080P will be easy on relatively inexpensive graphics solutions, things like global illumination etc. will have been standard for a while and bluray will be cheap to implement.

Already the graphics possible at 720P on the PS3 and 360 often outstrips the artistic ability of the developers to use it. (Name one title that looks as real as a DVD movie at only 480P!)
Even a relatively cheap to build console that would be launched in 2010 or later could supply amazing lighting and high poly counts, global illumination and physics and particle effects with ease. So the next round won't *have* to be so bleeding edge to supply gamers with an ultra realistic and graphically rich experience.
the big question is, will the developers be able to make games for it that can take advantage of even a non bleeding edge next-gen console?
Some will, but development costs will continue to rise, it will take longer to design and build more realistic looking characters and bigger environments and such, and unless they can have a model where the games can be really low priced and sell millions (or have people continually subscribe to play online a-la WoW) *or* have a DRM that is truly uncrackable so that they don't have piracy to deal with, then it will be hard to justify the expense and time to create a game that could take real advantage of the next generation, bleeding edge or not.

I don't see why one game platform couldn't appeal to bath the casual/party gamers and the hardcore market, if the next consoles can have more than enough power, yet be cheap and quiet, that could happen, and game companies could produce party/casual games for an ongoing income stream while developing big deep titles like CoD and Bioshock etc.

If one of them had the balls to make an almost silent console, tooke the time to make the DVD/BluRay playback the best experience possible and opened up the media centre side of things to play just about any codec and let you fit your own hard drive, have a tuner and tivo functionality - then they could own all three markets.
Casual , Hardcore, and Home Theatre. The next gen might make such a thing affordable, so they could make money on the hardware, allowing them to address the markets they cannot while under the razor model.

I built a "gaming rig" for $1500 including a monitor. That's with 4 gigs of ram and SLI'd 8800's, you could build a rig that could run crysis on medium, bioshock and COD4 on high for about $600-800. In the end you get alot more for the money with the PC.

Yeah, you built one *now* for $1500, but that is the whole point, when the 360 came out, such a rig would have cost thousands more. What $1500 would have bought you back when the 360 was released wouldn't play crysis or Cod4 or bioshock at any decent quality level.

I love PC gaming, but it *requires* you to upgrade every 18 months or so, *if* you want to get full advantage out of the latest games. A new graphics card alone can cost more than a 360 system. The beauty of the consoles is that you buy them *once* and get to play the latest games for up to 5 years. That gives you a lot more for your money than a PC.

They are different beasts, but the PC is definitely an ongoing investment, I don't know any PC gamer that doesn't keep buying hardware to keep up. It usually goes like this. PC purchase. happiness. then a RAM upgrade. Then a CPU bump. then a new graphics card. then a new PC (or new mobo/cpu/ram combination anyway when the sockets and ram change again). This usually happens at a much faster rate than going from a PS1 to PS2 to PS3 for instance. $800 to only play crysis on medium seems still a bum-deal. That game is getting old now, and really if you aren't playing it on high, then you are missing out on the full experience anyway, kind of like if you were playing a console version ;^)

[dokworm]

I think if sony brought out a mouse and keypad style controller for FPS titles then they would pwn the 360 and eat into the PC gaming market.
I can understand why MS doesn't for the 360, it would hurt the PC gaming division, but what is stopping Sony from doing it?
It is the one thing I hear again and again from PC gamers as to why they don't buy a console.

[21cwSpanky]

Not quite, we were just recently hit with a new wave of technology (multi core) which provides little performance benefit in this current generation of PC software. I can think of about 4 games that will take advantage of my 2nd core. Before this 3-3.5 ghz processors could be bought for the same price as a 2 ghz processor today and provide enough power to run todays generation of games. All buying dual core right now does is future proof you?

But I ask this question, is it worth it? We've had 64 bit processors as the norm for the last 5 years yet the 64 bit platform for gaming hasn't gone anywhere. The only games that support 64 bit that I can think of are farcry crysis and HL2. Then we get down the OS discussion and there's another whole argument for a different day.

Point in hand I can sell you a computer for $800 right now that would beat the xbox-360 on a benchmark, and it was built 4 years ago.

[dokworm]

well sure you could sell me a 4 year old computer right now for $800 that might beat a 360 *in a benchmark* I could buy for only $250 with games (eeebay item# 160222367822) and keep $550 in my pocket.

I doubt that 4 year old computer if it hasn't been upgraded would play the current generation of games at high quality settings, whereas my 360 will play every game released for it *right now*. And in 12 months time will that $800 PC play *any* of the games that come out in 2009? And how much did that computer set you back four years ago?

That is my point, a console is a one off investment, you don't have to keep paying for upgrades or even pay uber dollars at release for one to be able to play current games. You can pay the price for the consle and know that you can get at least 5 years worth of being able to play current titles, without compatability issues, or having to turn off certain features or upgrade something just to make it work.
You buy a new release game, put it in and play.

PCs are a different experience, there are advantages, but cost is seriously not one of them, especially over a 5 year term.

[dokworm]

In November of 2003 (4years and 4 months ago) an alienware PC with a whopping 2.2GHz Athlon and a 5950 graphics card, and a whole 1GB of DDR Ram, and two 160GB Sata drives would set you back US$4,649
I wonder how it would go with current games?

To be more fair, a cyberpower Gamer Ultra 9900 Pro in July of 2004 (less than 4 yrs ago) would only cost you US$2,899
and that got you a geforce 6800, 2.4GHz Athlon, 1GB RAM, two 74GB drives and an LCD monitor. Even if you take out $900 for the monitor and the drives, that still leaves you with a 2 grand investment that can't play current games at all. My PC under my desk at work is similar - it is a 2.4GHz Athlon with 2GB DDR RAM and a 6800 card, and it is useless for todays games.
PC gaming is expensive whatever way you slice it. and it is an ongoing expense. If you enjoy it, then like any hobby, spending money on it is fine, but that is why consoles will always be around. Fixed cost, around 5 years of value, and relatively hassle free (no upgrades or compatability issues or tweaking required).

[BuforTjstass]

nothing is deffrent about this game generation then the past! these people are (#&#(#( idiots. I dare one of the stinky, rotten, juvelille written articles to compare the cost of game nowaday to the cost in the 80s and 90's. It's no diffrent, hell id venture to say it's a HELL of alot cheaper. Go ahead and stick a VHS tape in your nintendo. Play even lowest bitrate wav file on your SNES. What consoles are now adays are a fucking steal. The wii is a one trick pony for new buyers, and is easy enough control for teens and senior citizens alike. The wii sells games because its cheaper for parents to buy their bastard children a game then it is to rent a baby sitter, or they would rather be getting ripped watching sports and watching reality tv. I had the wii 20 years ago, it was called the ZAPPER.

WTF I HATE THE Wii, i want to sell mine but i think i would have more pleasure dragging it behind my car on highway 75. at least then i would get some fun out it.

(ps this doesnt have alot to do with this topic) haha

Amen.
We're here debating their consoles, while they're trying to change our perception of reality.
Is there a reason they have the money and the power?
Go figure.

This post has been edited by BuforTjstass: Mar 28 2008, 06:55 AM

[21cwSpanky]

In November of 2003 (4years and 4 months ago) an alienware PC with a whopping 2.2GHz Athlon and a 5950 graphics card, and a whole 1GB of DDR Ram, and two 160GB Sata drives would set you back US$4,649
I wonder how it would go with current games?

To be more fair, a cyberpower Gamer Ultra 9900 Pro in July of 2004 (less than 4 yrs ago) would only cost you US$2,899
and that got you a geforce 6800, 2.4GHz Athlon, 1GB RAM, two 74GB drives and an LCD monitor. Even if you take out $900 for the monitor and the drives, that still leaves you with a 2 grand investment that can't play current games at all. My PC under my desk at work is similar - it is a 2.4GHz Athlon with 2GB DDR RAM and a 6800 card, and it is useless for todays games.
PC gaming is expensive whatever way you slice it. and it is an ongoing expense. If you enjoy it, then like any hobby, spending money on it is fine, but that is why consoles will always be around. Fixed cost, around 5 years of value, and relatively hassle free (no upgrades or compatability issues or tweaking required).

Alienware is a ripoff. I bought the computer behind me 4 years ago with 2 2.5 ghz opterons, 4 gigs of ram, 2 74 gig raptors, x800XT, and a semi-decent speaker system for about the same price. What did that get me? It got me 4 years worth of fun with the ability to do anything and everything I want. You show me homebrew on the xbox360 i'll show you somthing a PC has been doing since the 1960's.

[Elemino]

As far as I know, the PS3 won't handle as many video formats as the 360 can over the network

Unfortunately this is true. The original xbox with xbmc is by far the best media player, although it is limited to 720p and thats if you have the hd pack. Neither of the two consoles will play half of the thousands of videos I have on my computer, but there are still a lot of files the 360 plays the ps3 won't. That's not an opinion, that's a simple fact. I don't understand it myself, seeing as how the ps3 is supposed to be divx compliant and 360 is not.

[Chancer]

I have on my computer, but there are still a lot of files the 360 plays the ps3 won't.

What type of files, file extensions etc. My 360 doesn't play a wider variety of files than my PS3 and that is fact not opinion

[ironnerd]

I don't think that the wii is going to have that much of an effect on the next generation of consoles, aside from the possibility that we may see a wiimote like controller for all of them. Hopefully camera based (and working!) so you don't need to worry about controllers at all.. keyboard/mouse as a standard would be nice too.

Aside from that, a focus on gameplay would be nice, but it is possible to have both good gameplay and good graphics. The more power the console has, the more possibilites there are for the developers. I see this only helping matters.

As for pc gaming, its too expensive for my tastes, the geforce 7 series cards which were new in 2005 can barely keep up with todays games, however my launch 360, which cost me $399 is still able to play the new games that come out for it, and I don't need to go in and lower any settings to play them, I can buy the game without needing to worry about how much I will need to spend in upgrades to actually play it.

21cwSpanky: I am a little confused by your posts about this "$600-$800/$1500 gaming rig" that you have built. First of all, are you implying that you built a system with 8800's in SLI 4 years ago? or even around the launch date of the 360? I find that a little difficult to beleive considering the geforce 8 series cards didn't arrive until late 2006.. and a 7800gtx card would have cost at least $400-$500 back then, so an SLI system with those would have cost upwards of $1000 before you even added in cpu/mobo etc..

I do agree that you get a lot more for your money when you purchase a PC over a console, but these days you can buy a cheap (non gaming) pc and a 360/ps3 for around $700 and you get all the great things about a pc, as well as a console for your games. For me, its a simple choice.

Just my 2 cents.

[21cwSpanky]

21cwSpanky: I am a little confused by your posts about this "$600-$800/$1500 gaming rig" that you have built. First of all, are you implying that you built a system with 8800's in SLI 4 years ago? or even around the launch date of the 360? I find that a little difficult to beleive considering the geforce 8 series cards didn't arrive until late 2006.. and a 7800gtx card would have cost at least $400-$500 back then, so an SLI system with those would have cost upwards of $1000 before you even added in cpu/mobo etc..

I do agree that you get a lot more for your money when you purchase a PC over a console, but these days you can buy a cheap (non gaming) pc and a 360/ps3 for around $700 and you get all the great things about a pc, as well as a console for your games. For me, its a simple choice.

Just my 2 cents.

Two different PC's. And a third behind me all of which will play today's games with varying levels of performance.

[alpha_prime]

Saying gaming is DOOMED because of the wii is pure utter bullshit IMO. It was pretty obvious from the start that it wouldn't be as powerfull as the other consoles, that's just the route they chose and that should be respected i think. I'm pretty sure the next nintendo console will be 'on-par' regarding hardware. I still like it though, it feels like the console the gamecube should've been: wifi, built in memory, sleek...

I still think the 'casual' thing was a good move, i actually enjoy those games more then the oldskool fps'es and rpg's, games like geometry wars and wiisports etc are fun, and you don't need to invest huge amounts of time in them.

they've really showed that there is a market for both hardcore and casual, i really hope that both stay and keep improving...

[Elemino]

What type of files, file extensions etc. My 360 doesn't play a wider variety of files than my PS3 and that is fact not opinion

90% of them are avi files. Another 5% are wmv. The other 5% are mov, flv, and mp4. I understand the last 3. That's why I don't download them very often. But the majority are avi, and there are pages after pages of files neither console will play, and then tried and tested files that will play on the 360 but not on the PS3.

This post has been edited by Elemino: Mar 29 2008, 05:07 AM