Opened A Xbox To Find A Hitachi-lg Dvdrom, **MERGED TOPICS** Options

[LenteSubigo]

just some t houghts on the inversion of the signals and method of upping voltages.

As far as the relay goes - is a 5v relay going to be available in a small enough package that it could be fit inside the drive chasis? I've only seen relays with these specs in quite large sizes...
I would think it would make more sense to use a transistor to supply the 5v from the smaller 3v signal... and package size shouldn't be a problem - as the transistor isn't based on electromagnetic fields...  it doesn't need to be as large as the relays (should be cheaper too).
I'm still a student, so i may not be 100% correct in my assumptions - just applying what i've learned thus far

Edit: and congrats on the extraction! i didn't think it would ever get done lol

Well a reed relay can be as small as on of the smaller compasiters on the xbox motherboard. They are available at less than $1 from mouser.com - but shipping will be a bit much for a 1 item order. If there is another easy solution (transisters) that has parts available at RadioShack(or similar) we should go with that so more people can mod these things.


I just did some reading on transisters, and that sounds like the best idea. Find a constant 5v source (or use a 5v regulator) and use the 3.3v sand a transister as a switch for the 5v source.

Then we can use an inverter for the other signal.

Does the 3.3v show 3.3v and 0.0v or does it have some voltage all the time?

This post has been edited by LenteSubigo: Mar 2 2005, 01:42 AM

[otherguy]

a 5v supply should be trivial to find... the molex connector brings 5v in on the red line... no problems there. We just need to get the proper data signal for the base of the transistor... here's how it should be wired:


Sorry for the crappy image - photoshops not installed on my laptop yet. thank go XP's version of pain can save in compressed formats

If anyone wants to do some reading on these devices here's a few good links:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/trans.html
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/basics/transistors.htm

[wenid]

I just did some reading on transisters, and that sounds like the best idea.  Find a constant 5v source (or use a 5v regulator) and use the 3.3v sand a transister as a switch for the 5v source. 

Agreed. I've got some surface mount transistors that I've been using to fix v1.6 mobos with the blown power regulator, so maybe one of those will do the trick, but I suspect a wired (or "thru-hole") component will be easier to hook up.

Then we can use an inverter for the other signal.

We made not need to. I'm very rusty on this stuff, but I've got a vague recollection that there's some simple way to make the transistor work in the opposite fashion, style-o'fing.

Does the 3.3v show 3.3v and 0.0v or does it have some voltage all the time?

On this particular drive and Xbox my meter it actually shows 0.00V and 3.22V or 3.23V. Both signals show 0V when the tray is closed (because one of them needs inverting). The Tray In signal goes to 3.3V (or whatever) as soon as the tray starts opening, while the Tray Out signal stays at 0V until the tray is fully open.

a 5v supply should be trivial to find...  the molex connector brings 5v in on the red line...  no problems there.

Indeed. There are also multiple test points in the 5V rails so it's very easy to tap into the 5V supply.

We just need to get the proper data signal for the base of the transistor... here's how it should be wired:
[...snip...]
If anyone wants to do some reading on these devices here's a few good links:
[...snip...]

Thanks for all that, otherguy, including coming up with the idea in the first place.
I'm at work now, but I'll try to have a fiddle with all this tonight. This transistor idea seems more promising anyway, and the little electronics shop on the way to work didn't have any 7405s, so I wasn't able to pick up any today.

[wenid]

First a correction. It's Tray Out that needs inverting, not Tray In. I was previously under the impression that these are active-high signals but the evidence of my eyeballs indicates otherwise.

I haven't been able to fathom why, but the test point on the 8163B circuit board labelled "LDOUT" is the Tray IN signal (correct polarity) and the point labelled "LDIN" is Tray OUT (inverted). Perhaps I've misunderstood something somewhere, but I don't think so.

Anyway, I currently have a BC547 transistor and a couple or resistors tacked onto my 8163B's board and I appear to be getting a good inverted and boosted Tray Out signal. Next step (hopefully tomorrow -- no time now) is going to be to try an "uninverted" version of the same thing (using a 557 transistor) for the Tray In signal. I don't think I can have both of these little mini-circuits tacked on at the same time without getting a short somewhere and I can't put the case back on with either one of them in place, so I may look at a better way to install them while I'm at it. Maybe even just a tiny bit of veroboard with some wires hanging off it.

If anyone's interested, you can pretty much see what I did by looking at the last diagram on the page at http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/trancirc.htm under the heading "A transistor inverter (NOT gate)". If you scroll up a bit to the Heading "Choosing a suitable PNP transistor" you should get an idea of what I have in mind for the Tray In (uninverted) signal.

Wish me luck!

This post has been edited by wenid: Mar 2 2005, 03:55 PM

[heraldoffailure]

HAHA cheap M$ this and cheap M$ that... I'd put cheap parts in there too if I lost money on every box sold with thin intention that I will make money off the games. And then have half the boxes sold be bought for purposes other than playing original games.

I'm not sympathizing with M$, but I'm pointing out that our community and others like us are responsible for the decline in quality of the newer boxes. M$ is a business and they behave like one.

[LenteSubigo]

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=DVD-8163BK&c=pw

This is the best price I can find on the GDR-8163b Black DVD-ROM drives, If anyone can find a deal better than $27.00 with free shipping within the US please post it.



As to the tray in/ tray out, it was exactly the same with the sd-616t/f drives, you had to wire the tray in point to the tray out wire, and vice versa. I don't really understand how a transister can act as an inverter, and that link you posted says how to wire it up, but doesn't give any reason why it acts like it does.

[TracerX]

Might want to look into beige options too as they are sometimes cheaper if you don't mind having a beige tray.
Edit: Found a link for these drives at walmart.com, maybe we can find them local? http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp...030660804302498
Double Edit:Beige one at buy.com for 25.51 shipped free.

This post has been edited by TracerX: Mar 3 2005, 12:43 AM

[jive]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc....-136-050&depa=0

25.50 after they have it back in stock. NewEgg is the only place to shop IMO

[LenteSubigo]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc....-136-050&depa=0

25.50 after they have it back in stock. NewEgg is the only place to shop IMO

Yep, newegg looks like the best deal, and it looks like they will be back in stock tomorrow.

Now, the question is, can we flash the firmware back to the drive in a pc without any special tools? If this is going to be successful we will have to solve this problem and the tray in/out problem.

[wenid]

I don't really understand how a transister can act as an inverter, and that link you posted says how to wire it up, but doesn't give any reason why it acts like it does.

The 1k resistor Rc ties the output signal high. When the input signal is low (0V), the collector-emitter current is zero and the output remains high. When input signal is high, collector-emitter current flows (with the 1k resistor acting as the load), and the output signal is pulled low.

This is all fine and dandy and is working, as I said earlier. Things are not so rosy for the uninverted signal. I didn't have much time to play with it this morning, though.

This post has been edited by wenid: Mar 3 2005, 05:50 AM

[wenid]

I'm off to bed now. I haven't had much of a chance for hands-on work, but I have been able to look up a couple of things and think about it. My last thought for the day is "what about op-amps?"

This post has been edited by wenid: Mar 3 2005, 04:49 PM

[otherguy]

an op amp would work also - at first i thought it would be overkill - but now knowing that we need to change the voltage of two data signals - an op amp would be useful (since there is usually two opamps packaged per chip). They should be easy to come by - ratshack should have them

[wenid]

I lashed together a quick "protoype" op-amp circuit this morning. Once again the LDIN/TRAYOUT is fine (but not quite what I expected -- see below) but the LDOUT/TRAYIN is not working as expected. Clearly I'm even more hopeless at this than I thought. In case anyone else can shed any light, here's a schematic of what I did.

LDIN and LDOUT are the 3.3V signals from the 8163B, TRAYIN and TRAYOUT are the 'X' and 'Y' connections to the Xbox. The two 1k resistors form a simple voltage divider to get a reference voltage in between 0V and 3.3V (namely 2.5V). I used 1K resistors simply because I had two of them sitting on the bench that were left over from earlier experiments. I'm using a TL072 dual op-amp chip for similar reasons -- I just happen to have a couple left over from some unfinished project in the dim, distant past.
As I said, the LDIN/TRAYOUT op-amp is working as expected, except that when LDIN is high TRAYOUT is 1.25V, not 0V. With my limited understanding of this stuff I'm not sure why this is happening, but I don't think it matters since 1.25V is low enough anyway. Also, when LDIN is low TRAYOUT only shows 3.9V, not 5V. When I was playing with the transistor inverter circuit I measured the TRAYOUT voltage both with and without it hooked up to the Xbox. It showed well over 4V when disconnected but only 3.9V when connected, so I'm guessing it's somehow due to the load on TRAYOUT from the Xbox.
With the LDOUT/TRAYIN op-amp I'm reading 3.9V at TRAYIN all the time, no matter what the state of the LDOUT signal.

[LenteSubigo]

Ok, I keep reading over your posts, and as I read them, some of them are contridictory. Here is the info I need:

LDIN/Tray Out - What is it showing when the tray is in, when the tray is out. What should it be showing when the tray is in, and when the tray is out.

LDOUT/Tray IN - What is it showing when the tray is in, when the tray is out. What should it be showing when the tray is in, and when the tray is out.


If I can get this info, I can send it to work with my brother-in-law, and he can have an electrical engineer figure out what the best circuit is to get the job done.

Also, has anyone successfully used the firmware loader to load the 8050 firmware onto a gdr-8163b?

[wenid]

Ok, I keep reading over your posts, and as I read them, some of them are contridictory.

Please point out which posts you think contradict one another, and in what way (except for the mistake I made re. TRAYOUT needs inverting not TRAYIN, which I already corrected myself). You may prefer to do this in a PM. Either way is fine with me.

Here is the info I need:

LDIN/Tray Out - What is it showing when the tray is in, when the tray is out.  What should it be showing when the tray is in, and when the tray is out.

There is no "it" here. LDIN and TRAYOUT are two separate signal lines. One is derived from the other. My earlier post refers to LDIN/TRAYOUT only when talking about the circuit that converts one to the other.
LDIN is a signal from the 8163B. It "shows" 0V at all times except if the tray is fully open, when it shows 3.3V (well 3.22 or 3.23, actually).
TRAYOUT is the signal provided to the Xbox. It should be at 5V at all times except if the tray is fully open, when it should be 0V. With the op-amp circuit pictured above that is still hanging off my 8163B at home, I measure 3.9V when the tray is closed and 1.25V when it is open, but these levels seem to be close enough.

LDOUT/Tray IN - What is it showing when the tray is in, when the tray is out.  What should it be showing when the tray is in, and when the tray is out.

LDOUT is at 3.3V at all times except if the tray is fully closed, when it is at 0V (so really it's at 0V most of the time because "tray fully closed" is the normal state for the drive). TRAYIN should be at 5V at all times except if the tray is fully closed, when it should be at 0V.

If I can get this info, I can send it to work with my brother-in-law, and he can have an electrical engineer figure out what the best circuit is to get the job done. 

That would be great, but please keep in mind (or ask your brother-in-law to ask the engineer to keep in mind) that we don't necessarily want the "best" circuit from an engineering point of view, but rather the smallest, simplest circuit that will do the job so that it can be easily installed and will fit in the limited space available inside the DVD drive.

Also, has anyone successfully used the firmware loader to load the 8050 firmware onto a gdr-8163b?

Unless they've patched it themselves or you've been distributing it, no-one but you and me has a copy of it.